1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

British Indy: What Happens Now?

Discussion in 'Wasteland' started by Loz, May 23, 2015.

?
  1. Full Brexit with "no EU deal" on the 29th March.

  2. Request Extension to article 50 to allow a general election and new negotiations.

  3. Request Extension to article 50 to allow cross party talks and a new deal to be put to EU.

  4. Request Extension to article 50 to allow a second referendum on 1. Remain in EU or 2. Full Brexit.

  5. Table a motion in parliament to Remain in EU WITHOUT a referendum.

  6. I don't know or I don't care anymore

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Oddly enough, the Brexit debate prior to the 2016 Referendum had a pivotal role in amending my opinion on the EU and thus, on British Independence.

    The failed Scottydog rebellion of 2014 started the process off for me. It triggered an interest in politics that up until then had been a very academic, fatalistic, laissez-faire approach - "they are all crooks, I cannot be bothered" was my attitude and that was sufficient for me.
    The 2014 referendum made me begin to examine my beliefs and started my inexorable roll towards my current position.

    [​IMG]

    Politicians are crooks, almost to a man/woman/fluidic entity. Belief that you can somehow elect the right kind of people into public office still eludes me. The efforts to bring about, first Scottish Indy, and then British Indy, made me examine more closely what it is I want from politicians. And that can be summed up, but not delineated as, as little as possible without introducing anarchy.

    [​IMG]

    Opinion: Limitation of government should always be the first principle. It should be the default position. It should be the guiding light and end-game of every political endeavour.
    Fact: What we have now though is, the exact opposite. Excuses and reasons for increasing the scope of government, in every conceivable area of human experience, are frequent, regular, unceasing and over-whelming. If the people who make up the Government could be relied upon to act honourably, in the best interests of citizens ... perhaps loss of freedoms, loss of self-reliance, loss of personal responsibility could be argued as a good thing - could be, but I am not sure I would be persuaded.

    [​IMG]

    However, in the real world, you can only ever rely on Government to make things worse, through the inevitability of unintended consequences, if not downright malfeasance and corruption. Government's ill-conceived and ill-fated attempts at social experimentation, fiscal manipulation ... together with its propensity for "looking after its chums", dooms most governmental activity to contributing to the worsening of the human condition. Of course, talking about the human condition, you need to define what represents an improvement and what represents detriment, otherwise people will be confused by my statement here. I will provide a hint - there is more to quality of life than being able to live into your 90s and have your arse wiped by an uncaring care-assistant in a rest home.

    [​IMG]

    The issue of EU membership left me questioning many, many things. I went from an almost Scottish "Anyone but fecking Westminster, please" to limited government is essential to staving off our headlong rush towards Idiocracy and the inevitable death of civilisation. The EU represents rulership at the largest scale imaginable short of "World Government". With its grand gestures and grand schemes, it represents the triumph of the hive mind, the corporatists, the Marxists, over the individual. The power and privilege of the European Commission, with its rich, almost nameless backers, funders, strategists and lobbyists ... when people in the UK start yelling about rich "toffee-noses" like JRM, BoJob, and Co, I literally laugh out loud. These "rich and powerful folk" are chancers and barrow-boys compared to someone like Soros. It is fucking hilarious to watch.

    [​IMG]

    Anyway, that is the description of my personal journey from Yeah, sure, Brussels, why not? to I prefer Westminster, at least they are within range there. I doubt that many here will identify with me : o )

    TL;DR: The Brexit debates of 2015/2016 cemented a change of attitude for me towards British Independence. Your mileage may vary.

    TopTotty included in accordance with forum regulations.
     
  2. I have said before that it would be sad if as a result of our leaving the EU became the organisation I wanted it to be.

    However, while its an economists wet dream and the theory sounds nice as soon as Politicians and bureaucrats get involved it all gets fucked up.

    As for change. The inertia is too great, and I always think of Sep Blatter and FIFA. That corrupt twat bribed the footballing toe rag members so that they would keep voting for him and I can't help feeling something similar is happening now in the EU to maintain the staus quo.

    TB
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  3. That’s a very interesting analysis and I agree with a lot of it. However, while you’re often to be found saying what you don’t want, I’ve not seen any suggestions for a viable alternative (however, I only discovered Speakers Corner a couple of months back so I may have missed the manifesto).

    The closest I’ve seen you one to setting out how you think we should be governed is this statement “as little as possible without introducing anarchy“ and interestingly, I drafted a response yesterday which said something along the lines of “some of your views seem to align with anarchists” but for whatever reason it didn’t make the edit.

    What does that actually look like in practice though?

    It’s a genuine question btw as I tend to agree with quite a lot of what you wrote in terms of its criticism of politics and politicians (t’was ever thus), but I don’t see any solutions being put forward.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. It's difficult for me to answer this in any detail, as my beliefs represent an aspiration or mission statement rather than a blueprint for specific government. If you don't accept the premise that there are two valid philosophies in the approach to government - minimalist and all-encompassing (socialist) - and that that there is only one valid methodology, that of Government being the final arbiter for all matters, then we will be reduced to arguing cases. Which will be dull.

    I can try, I guess. Let me bang together some examples that won't fall apart at first contact with the enemy and get back to the forum.

    In the end, any number of prima facie exceptions to the rule of "minimum government" will not invalidate the principle, for me at least. I am after all, not arguing in favour of either full-on libertarianism or anarchism.
     
  5. Situation update:

    Out at any cost, lets have a bunch of self serving tory fascists in power, if they deliver Brexit. Harder the better not a problem.
    Because obviously people like JRM, Govey and Bojob have the average persons best interests at heart and care deeply for the UK and its population. And erm, sovereignty....etc!
    Meanwhile use Labour tactics of securing votes by promising huge spending, that is obviously going to be difficult to fund after reduced taxation, reduced gdp and short, medium, long term damage to the economy. Delete short, medium, long as you wish, roll a dice....After all because austerity was just a funny idea/joke that the Tory party were sharing with us.


    seems to be the current plan?

    of course they might just be playing a huge bluff as even no deal will need some sort of temporary deal? Probably maintain the status quo as an emergency measure. Which sounds a bit like leaving but staying at the same time, whilst continuing to play stupid games to stay in power. (Default position of this Government)

    Obviously I dont believe any of the above. That would just be crazy people doing crazy shit.....


    ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Drama Queen Drama Queen x 1
  6. I think you need a dictionary

    A government trying to deliver upon a democratic majority vote by the people, that both houses in parliament asked the people to provide an answer on, is not fascism.
     
  7. I know a song about Anarchy - it is very good :thinkingface: I also own 2 axes and a petrol driven chainsaw - just sayin'
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. how big is yer chainsaw?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. It's only a tiddler 17 inch blade :D
     
  10. pussy...:D
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. Axe in left hand, chainsaw in right - them trees aint gonna know what hit 'em…..
     
  12. Well, it seems its only 21.5 days............


    ...........until we don't Leave.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  13. a sill wee saw with a 17" bar. dude, they will larf at yah.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. Silver birch dude, we are talkin' silver birch.....
     
  15. excellent. they make good spears. we is gonna need em.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  16. Burns good too - for disposing of the bodies ;)
     
  17. I got onto page 2000 :upyeah:
     
  18. Is that not when computer things are meant to go bang? :thinkingface:
     
  19. Fingers crossed..
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
Do Not Sell My Personal Information