clutch is already "broken in" (drove 350km) it's much easier to shift gears now, however i still find it hard to find neutral when at a stop light. even "slipping" the clutch and moving back and forth, only way i found is when rolling to a stop, roll off the gas, pull the clutch in and "smack" the shifter if i press it gently it'll shift to first... The clutch disengages correctly (pressure plate spins freely) and there is no drag. i found that if i adjust the lever on the 1 position, and screw in the little adjuster screw near the master cylinder it makes it much easier to find neutral and also makes gear shifts smoother. but i hate this setting, i like my lever on the "3" setting... is what i'm experiencing normal? is there a way i can keep the lever adjusted the way i like and still get very smooth gear shifts and find neutral easy? also, what does pushing in the master cylinder actually do? does it make it so the pressure plate lifts higher? if so, is there a set measurement of how much the clutch plate should lift from the clutch plate? or does it simply have to lift enough so it can spin freely by hand? Other issue: i fixed my leaking fuel tank by placing an O-RING to better seal the fuel cap, however, i still noticed that with the fuel tank full (not overfilled, but filled to as high as the manual allows) if i ride hard (especially breaking hard) the rubber breather nipple shoots fuel out if i open the gas cap, is this normal? both breather holes are not clogged i was advised to verify if the valve under the passenger seat is working properly. how can i verify so? i tried taking it apart, but the plastics are so hard and brittle from being old and the screws so tight i was scared it would fall apart from unscrewing it, maybe applying a bit of heat with a heatgun to the screws will make them come out... still i don't know exactly how to verify it's working properly
Difficulty finding neutral is a sign of clutch drag. I would make sure there is no air in the clutch hydraulic system before I'd do anything else by bleeding it. If that doesn't solve it you need to look at your clutch pack. I may have warped steel disk or, if you replaced those as well, the stack will be too thick. The options are to take out one steel disk if you have 2 off them back to back somewhere in the stack, swap a couple of steel discs with thinner ones or take out one of the friction plates.
Yep, sounds like a classic stack height issue to me. I assume you've got a dished plate in there after the rebuild. As mentioned, replacing a steel plate with a thinner one would be ideal, but you could also try putting one of your old friction plates back in.
clutch isn't dragging, and there is no air in the system... i was told the behavior is normal (the further you push the master cylinder in adjusting the lever, the easier it shifts and the easier it is to find neutral because the clutch plate lifts higher) replaced all the steels too, and i checked the stack height and it's correct
i measured the stack and it's within spec... what i'm wondering is, is there a set amount of MM the clutch plate should lift off the plates? because lifting it higher by adjusting the lever makes it shift better and find neutral better, perhaps like others have suggested to me it's normal behavior and i just need to adjust the screw at the lever further.... i just wonder if there is a set amount the plate should lift up.... so i can get some feeler guages and mesure it
The clutch is definitely dragging and no it’s not normal. It may only be dragging marginally but it’s enough to make it difficult for you to find neutral. The fact it’s cured by more lever movement, which equates to more m/c piston movement which equates to more slave cylinder piston movement which equates to more pushrod movement which equates to more lift of the pressure plate off the clutch stack, demonstrates its dragging. I bet the clutch begins to bite with the lever nearer the handlebar than away from it? To cure it you’ll have to reduce the clutch pack thickness very slightly. As suggested swap a 2mm steel for a 1.5mm steel or put back one or 2 of the old friction plates although swapping steel plate thickness is the better option.
In my experience the stack height is more of a 'recommendation', or 'very good starting point'. Dropping it down to the minimum size, or just below, will almost certainly sort out your issue. Look on it as fine tuning your race bred Italian machine, and get used to the fact it's a Ducati, with the character that demands this sort of thing. You've not said if you did include a dished plate, or what way up you put it in the stack? What state is the basket it? If it's got really deep wear marks in the slots that might not be helping. .
Ah well, I wonder why you asked the question if you have all the answers. I guess my bikes aren't normal as I don't have an issue finding neutral.
ah well, maybe don't get triggered when your generic basic answer doesn't solve the issue? i told you there is no air in the system, do you have any reason to doubt what i'm saying? if so, i'm listening. the clutch was bled by a ducati mechanic a few months ago. i bled it last week too just to make sure, reverse bleeding and at the banjo bolt for good measure. and the clutch stack height is correct. so i don't know what the problem ... and the clutch is not dragging. if it were, the rear wheel would spin when lifted off the ground. these bikes are notorious for being hard to find neutral. also, "i was told the behavior is normal (the further you push the master cylinder in adjusting the lever, the easier it shifts and the easier it is to find neutral because the clutch plate lifts higher)" this is the explanation i was given on a italian forum, and it makes more sense than anything you told me so far. so, maybe instead of getting triggered when a oblivious tip like checking if there is air in the system doesn't work. maybe try to help me investigate the issue further? or if not, don't answer to the forum post?
You've had 3 experienced members of this forum telling you it's a stack height issue but you discard those comments and insist that's not the case. Perhaps you should investigate that possibility. We can only help you if you're willing to help yourself. You did NOT mention you bled the clutch recently in your original post nor did you make it clear you changed all of the clutch. My "generic answer" gave you 3 possibilities why you have the issues and some solutions. I'll explain what I said for the hard of understanding. If you have air in the system the clutch doesn't lift as much as it could, it drags and you struggle to find neutral. If you have warped steel discs (many of us only change the friction plates) the maximum clutch lift may not be enough to separate the plates, the clutch drags and you struggle to find neutral. If the hydraulics are tip top and all the plates are new and you still have a problem finding neutral your stack of plates is too THICK, the system isn't capable of lifting the plates enough, the clutch drags and you struggle to find neutral. Obviously the plates lift higher with a different lever position that allows more lever travel. Well it's obvious to me. You on the other hand asked what pushing the clutch master cylinder actually does! So forgive me if my reply started with the basics. 3 people including myself have given you options on how to reduce your stack so you can have the lever position you want and be able to find neutral. So go on, keep on insisting that's not the problem and tell yourself it's normal to struggle or having to rock the bike back and forth, have the lever right at the end or whatever else you do as a work around. Meanwhile the rest of us pull up to traffic lights and just put our bikes into neutral. All the best
I don’t want roasting for this, but you’re saying the clutch is already bedded in at 350k. Fair enough. Just saying that when I replaced my entire clutch recently it worked well for changing gear at 350k but neutral was always a bitch to select till approx 1500k. Now it snicks in and out no problem at all. Just use the clutch, get some distance on it and give it a chance to 110% bed in. Hopefully job done!
i see, i was sort of thinking about this. you're not the first one that describes this. i was referring to what the vendor of the plates said to me, that after 350km it will be "broken in" will try to put some more KM on it and see how it goes. thx
Whenever I had a new Multistrada it always took a while to find neutral easily. My solution was to just select neutral as I was slowing down which was much easier (or rock the bike at standstill)
When I renewed the basket and plates in my DS, I had to put a couple of the old worn friction plates in to get it to work right, this took the stack height out of the recommended tolerance, but it worked well.
Agreed, I find around 1.5 - 2mm less than the oft quoted 38.5mm works best for me but that may vary from bike to bike? My way of setting them up is to adjust the pack thickness (using said 1.5mm flat plates rather than 2mm if required) until when, with the clutch pulled in you can 'spin' the clutch by hand (engine off, obviously) and it runs on a little when released, if it stops dead then it will drag and neutral will be elusive unless still rolling. I also don't use dished plates as I can't see the logic in having a plate that doesn't sit flat so will wear the friction unevenly by potentially slipping by not getting full contact plus, IMO it's more likely to drag due to the 'spring' effect not letting it fully release. Plus, I can squeeze an extra friction plate into the pack by fitting only a single 2mm plain plate at the bottom and then substituting 2mm plains with 1.5mm to achieve the required stack. That said, I do have stainless steel clutch springs that are a little heavier than the originals so may assist with not slipping on a thinner pack? I've been called out for heresy/blasphemy on Ducati forums for the above beliefs but I've been using this method for many years on my 2 dry clutch Ducatis and have never had a problem with clutch drag, smooth engagement or slip and I can select neutral at the traffic lights. Of course as the clutch wears, it will get better with regards to finding neutral until of course it doesn't.
The dished plates help make the clutch more progressive in use. Less In or Out, more like a traditional motorcycle clutch that’s running in oil. I prefer mine this way.
Yes, I know that's the claim but I don't have any issues with progressiveness on mine without them so I don't fit them.
