Fig - If I have missread your previous posts I apologise, but what you appeared to be saying is that water alone was a suitable coolant. If this stuff has no other benefits then I agree - why not use old-fashioned water/glycol mix ? However, I have another reason for wanting to know if this stuff actually does what it is claimed to do - see post #50...
The last header tank cost the best part of £50 and had to come from Germany - and the number still available is slowly diminishing. So it could be "the way ahead"...
because its designed to be used with a water mix to raise the boiling point and lower the freezing point. on its own in neat form it has poor heat transfer and neat can freeze. most effective 30% ish surprised you didn't know that
Hi Arthur(Madaboutbikes), Not having a pop at anyone (apart from Fig, who just seems to say the first thing that comes into his head...Fig are you blond rather than purple?....only joking). I must admit I only cruised the website and read all the wrong pages before my initial comments. On their website there is some terminological inexactitudes which would make a junior school Physics teachers piss themselves. Then on another page there is some real understanding of science and good arguments. This may suggest the engineers words (used on the Q & A) have been bastardised by the marketing people on the opening pages. So your comment " in all the sale BS you can find the truths of the product" is 100% true. Sorry for jumping on the BS band wagon so early. I agree that the differences in viscosity and entropy are so small that would have little effect in the real world that we, as users, could see on our engines. Given that the vehicles they are put in operate at varying environments, so they'll have a considerable degree of over engineering. However I don't believe that Evans has a higher specific heat than water and this is the most critical part missing from their information campaign, as they avoid the issue completely. If, as I believe, the Evans has a lower Specific heat then it is not as good as water in moving heat away from the engine. If you don't believe this to be an issue then google "Evans Coolant problems". Some of the boys with big turbo's have moved back to water. These users are probably much closer to the edge of cooling design envelope than we are on our machines. Lets be honest, the fact that Evans doesn’t boil until 180°C means that you are more likely masking an inefficient cooling arrangement rather than solving the fundamental problem. The issue of boiling over is a problem to you, as you've now lost all your coolant, which is clearly a dire situation. To change water to steam (under pressure) takes enormous amounts of energy (heat), far more than just moving the liquid one more degree hotter. Further the metal next to the water cannot get any hotter than the boiling point, the slightly hotter steam quickly moves away and is replaced with liquid water keeping the water jacket walls at 100°C (or just above depending on pressure). That wouldn’t be the case with a liquid with a higher boiling point (Evans). Reading the bulletins from the aero engine people reads like "we've messed up of heat transfer calculations, so having some coolant like Evans is better than none, 'cause your water/antifreeze mix has all boiled away". Just because your engines aren't boiling over doesn’t mean their not getting too hot. You engines are probably running hotter, oils getting thinner with the associated increased wear and chance of failure. Experiment If you could get a load of liquid cooled engines running at 98% heat generating capacity, with the cooling systems working correctly (within design tolerance) with 1/2 running Evans and 1/2 running a water based coolant I believe the water based ones would have a lower (correct) temperature around the core areas in the engine. Temperature at the radiator is not important, but it's critical that the oil is kept within its operating range and that the moving parts of the engine are kept within tolerance. This test hasn’t been done to my knowledge. That's my 2pence worth, based on reading their website and my reasonable understanding of cryogenics, thermodynamics and Physics. As an Engineer the science isn't right, so I won't be buying it. The Evans website does have a "Slick50" feel to it, which is reinforcing my doubts that this is a good idea and it's more likely to be snake oil.
cool we have possibly met, the wife ran the shop up there, her brother wane works up there most winters, if you met him you would remember him, runs a blade with a death wish.
back to this discussion about the effectiveness of moving heat away. ultimately all water cooled engines are governed by a thermostat that opens and closes at predefined temperatures long before the coolant is able to be reduced to a gas through boiling. so long as the engine is kept within those temperature parameters I cannot see how there can be any advantage at all. and if i did have concerns. id simply drop a slightly colder thermostat in there.....or investigate other issues if your cooling system is well maintained, leak free and operating under the correct pressure (governed by the coolant cap) water/glycol offers everything you need and maintenance free for upto 5 years slick 50 wynns for oil wetter water rampant rabbit 2 all gimmicky shite
yes pure water will cause corrosion of varying degrees because of anodic reaction with the varying electrolytic/galvanic values of the metals. when ethelene glycol is added this is broadly not the case and corrosion will occur only if it is left in too long and it becomes unstable and acidic. just like central heating systems. . as said earlier the temperature in the cylinder is several hundred degrees hotter than the coolant jacket - yet we seldom see coolant evaporating under operating conditions - now why is this.. this is because the coolant has its boiling point raised because of the additives and also because its operating under pressure and moving heat away. pressure has everything to do with the boiling point of fluids. boil water at sea level and boil water on top of mount everest - there is a huge difference. you heat water to 200 degrees under immense pressure and then open a valve into atmospheric pressure - I can guarantee you that it will be like a bomb going off with an expansion rate of about 1600 times the volume as it immediately vents atmospheric to gas/steam. 5 litres of water would become over 8000 litres of gas instantaneously under extreme circumstances (for example) I digress lol... sorry.. and if a thermostat fails ro open the excess pressure caused by the fluid having its boiling point exceeded will be apparent by it being released via the expansion tank governed by the pressurised cap. I never said pressure had anything to do with circulation - a correctly operating thermostat and water pump does. imo - they are trying to baffle with bullshit just like slick 50 and wynns for oil. theres always a sucker who will buy stuff... a bit like penus enlarging tablets... now where did I put them pmsl
if it works for you great - the crux of it is that im sure it wont work any better than whats gone before it. if you send me some I could probably calculate the specific heat capacity of it. determined by how much energy it takes to raise its temperature by X degrees compared to water/glycol. I suspect it would be no better.. but thanks for the discussion
What a about MOCOOL then? http://www.motul.com/system/product..._sheets/137/original/MoCool_GB.pdf?1290086772
broad statement backed up with no operating conditions. if you've got an engine operating at 75 degrees measured at the return hose. I doubt it would record 60 degrees. it all comes down to operating conditions which they dont mention... who knows ???
For me, I have no concerns about temperature or pressure. I simply like the idea of no water in my engine. I plan on keeping a couple of my bikes for many, many years. The anti-corrosion inhibitors in anti-freeze are just that, inhibitors. If I can take water out of the equation all together then I can see advantages in that. At £60, I think I may give it a try, I've spent more on a piece of carbon tat in the past to save 2g when a good salad would have been a lot cheaper and more effective ! For every piece of gimmicky shite, Slick 50, Wynns etc, there are genuine advancements............Fully synthetic oil, unleaded fuel, electronic ignition etc etc. Which camp will waterless coolant fall into? I have no idea, time will tell, but I think I'll go ahead.
Now you're in my camp of expertise I'd love to switch to Lipo for my Ducati Battery. It would save on weight and deal with a total flat to recover. Sadly, my experience at low tempreture on these is that they don't like to take a full charge..something I really need on my Mutley. I run about 20 Lipo batteries from bosch, Makita etc and at low tempretures, -10° to 5°C they won't take a full charge. I have to charge them up indoors. Have you found this with your bike batteries? Note you'd only really see a problem if the battery crank capacity is close to what is required to start the machine.
"you'd only really see a problem if the battery crank capacity is close to what is required to start the machine" - so pretty much anything ever made in Italy then ?
