Off topic. Riotous assembly and indecent exposure 2 of the best laugh out loud books ever. Read them as a kid still pick them up ever so often just to re read loved them and his others. V political in their day.
The great advantage of honours to a nation is that that they cost virtually nothing to award. Thousands of ordinary people who have been underpaid and underappreciated in their lives are enabled to feel a little pride in the contribution they made, whatever it was, by being given a CBE, OBE, or (most common of all by far) MBE. It has no real consequence for anyone, except the feelgood factor. This is the glue that holds society together. Then along comes some malicious person who sets out to destroy that pride by alleging that the process is corrupt, that those people have bought their honours. That allegation is false, baseless, and vindictive. There is no shred of evidence for it. It is offensive and insulting to many thousands of decent, honourable people. The appointment of people to the House of Lords where they can take part in the legislative process on behalf of one or another political party is an entirely different matter. Each party needs to nominate peers who adhere to that party and support its aims. Members of parties contribute money and if they are wealthy they often contribute large sums of money. Why should they not? Where should parties get funds from, if not from donors? Where should they get peers from if not from supporters?
Personally, I would like a House of Lords on entirely non-party lines. They aren't elected. Why should they be members of a party? In the Commons, it's different. You have elected a representative who has signed up to a political agenda. That is what you are voting for. But the Lords shouldn't be like this. It should be full of noble, honourable and venerable, wise people who have proven their merit in society (the reason they were ennobled) and are full of common sense and wisdom. It shouldn't have anything to do with party politics. The Lords is the "garde-fou" - the failsafe to curb overweening ambition and abuse of power in the Commons. Well, that's how I see it, but no doubt plenty of people, including Pete, don't.
You've been to secondary school? You lucky bastard. I like Gildd's idealised view of what the Lords could be but it doesn't really fit in with today's politics of self-interest.
Yep, I'm a sort of cynical idealist. I have ideals, just no illusions about how they won't work out. But you have to cling to them or you just roll over, and who wants to do that?
depends on what i have been up to. we need a second house, would be nice if more of them look awake when debating tho..
Glid far too idealistic, whilst in principle I completely agree, I believe the reality sadly will always be cynical manoeuvring by the major parties. The other consideration is that whilst you may be an honourable member of society doesn't necessarily mean you have any common sense. Surely that would be a better test? How much common sense do you have? Are you capable of cutting through the flim flam and rhetoric of your average politician?
The House of Commons Public admin select committee report into the session for 2012-13 reported that -cabinet office polling data- " further work was necessary to increase the proportion of people who viewed the honours system as open and fair, from the current figure of 44 %" and that members of the public believed honours could be and are bought by direct or,indirect political donation. That's a lot of people who view the system as NOT open and not fair. The report also notes that if someone get a VC or Mc or similar gallantry award, the citation can run to c.150 words. Most of the OBEs, MBEs, CBEs, KBEs citation runs to about four words. If it's meant to be open and honest, the system needed a lot of corrective work according to said report. Clearly the perception I gained from comments here, are it's still cloudy and indistinct, as a process. Within the process, there are undoubtedly many deserving recipients of the award, and I don't demean that. It's an interesting report, nevertheless acknowledging many flaws within the process and political overtones -120 pages and lots of info, so clearly anyone, like I have done, can extract pieces to illustrate a particular point. And no doubt will. I just like those stats I have quoted. They are interesting.
"Common sense" eh? I wonder what you mean by the extraordinarily vague expression "common sense". I suspect you mean "opinions and prejudices which agree with my own". Any opinions which differ from your own demonstrate a "lack of common sense", of course, making it easier to deride them. Personally I prefer reason, logic, knowledge, experience, and understanding as bases for decision-making.
Sounds as if you want to take the politics out of politics. The government of the day wants to get its policies through parliament; opposition parties want to oppose them. People who take an interest in politics soon decide which party they support (although they occasionally change their minds). The Lords is indeed full of noble, honourable, venerable, wise people and naturally they are committed to party politics. That is the reason they were ennobled. Someone who takes no interest in politics would probably refuse a peerage - as many do.
Pete I love you . No I believe that opinions and prejudices are based on attitudes and values that every person within this fine country of ours differ person to person socio economic group to socio economic group, so therefore surely as a society we are better to establish around us a cross section? I do not claim to lead this nor do I expect that my views will be represented by others only that they should be a fair representation of society no one person has a monopoly on these feelings only that our elected and non elected minority reflect societal views. This sadly includes and reflects cons, lab, lib, UKIP SNP green etc. oh my we are into proportional representation. But what would I know? I'm a member of the plebiscite.
All is not lost Finm - get your name registered with Alex and although the Scots have had a decent ration of honours this last year, more may be on the way, especially if he powerbrokes Scots 'bribed with knighthoods and CBEs to vote no in referendum' | Daily Mail Online
