What, listening to slavver gob politicians? Fuck that. You could end up believing the fuckers then in turn, believing what you want to believe and ignoring the stark realities of life. Like 749er and ttonup. Nah, I'll work it all out for myself. But hey, remember to keep smiling
Ignorance is just about the only healthy lifestyle choice we have left to us. Jeez, did that come off cynical? Damn.
not bad actually,, the stark realitie of life mate is that many, perhaps your good self included, are being led round in circles and dont even know it ,and seem to think that nit picking on the " issues of the day " will solve anything.. enjoy.
I afraid that reads to me like a counsel of despair. Our present band of intellectual lightweights and self-serving non-entities in Westminster are not the the alternative to surrendering our right of self-governance to a foreign quango, they are a direct consequence of it. And even if they are bloody useless I'd rather power resided with people I can hold to account and vote from office than with those I cannot. Decentralising power in this country is not akin to government by parish council. the UK would be better and stronger as a federation of sovereign states which co-operate on areas of mutual interest. And no, that is not what the EU does. It operates on precisely the reverse principle and that is why it is failing and will always fail.
Like I say, given a choice of power hungry individuals in charge who don't give a damn about me plus a ready access to European markets, and power hungry individuals in charge etc but without such access to Europe - why choose the latter? I'm very unconvinced by this. You'd need to demonstrate how the Federated States of UK would in any way differ in nature from what is being attempted in Europe. The scale would differ but then - ready access to European markets? That pesky issue again. Where's the meat?
It is not essential to be in the EU to have access to the market. Countries as diverse as Mexico and South Korea have trade agreements with the EU. Were we to leave then the remaining countries would be very short sighted to exclude the UK as we import far more than we export. Regardless of all that and speaking as someone who has an import /export company I`d like to say how piss easy it is to deal with companies pretty much anywhere whether buying or selling. You want what they have or vice versa and bingo, it happens. Import duties are arranged by politicians , they can be imposed, removed, increased, reduced, whatever the politicians of the day decide suits their agenda.
Edit: Dukesox beat me to it and says it better. That presupposes that leaving the EU means exclusion from European markets. It doesn't. The UK is a signatory to the Lisbon treaty. Under Article 50 we may negotiate bilateral trade terms as a non member. There is already a legal framework in place for such negotiations. The UK runs a substantial trade deficit with the EU. We buy from them considerably more than they buy from us. You don't need to be in the EU to trade with it. The rest of the world manages just fine. Furthermore being outside the EU allows us to pursue bilateral trade agreements with other markets. That is forbidden to us as a member state. Trade deals must apply to the EU bloc as a whole and must be ratified by the EU as a whole. Bilateral agreements for the specific benefit of an individual member state are not allowed. Membership of the EU considerably restricts our freedom to trade internationally, in a world where the EU market share is in long term decline and emerging markets are set to overtake it. We are a client state of a Europe which holds us back. There is nothing to fear from leaving. And in any case, there is far far more to it than economics. There is a world of difference between working to support the sovereignty of British states with a federal alliance and replacing that sovereignty with the EU. The EU does not support the national interests of its members. It exists to supplant them.
First off, there's inevitably going to be a big difference between the trade relationship between the EU and a nation that has never and geographically speaking, can never, be a member of the EU ... compared to that between the EU and an ex-member of the EU. Can we agree that, at least? I'm not saying that the UK will be unable to trade with the EU, I am just suggesting that the terms under which trade would be carried out will most likely be less favourable than currently - probably for various reasons, not least of which out of spite or malice. That the EU does not have the UK's national interests at heart is, frankly, irrelevant. I don't believe that Westminster has the best interests of its own citizens at heart - a least, not the majority of its citizens.
I refer you to my post 36 Godfrey Bloom isn't even a member of UKIP, but don't let that fact spoil your story. I could do an internet search to find anti English comment from SNP members, but frankly I can't be bothered. UKIP desperately needs to get it's house in order and make the transition to being a serious party with more than just one agenda. The SNP managed it but it took decades to do so, it isn't going to happen overnight for UKIP, but they are heading in the right direction and gathering widespread support. Ignore that at your peril, but don't try to rubbish the support that UKIP does get because it will backfire, just like attacks on the SNP have backfired. If you just want to forment discord then keep going. One thing we can agree on is that it is going to be interesting after May 2015. It would be a tragedy to return to business as usual between the Labour and Conservative parties but I don't think that will happen, the minor parties at Westminster will have to decide who they can work with and how; and that will be fascinating.
Whoever's interests they serve, we can sack Westminster politicians. We cannot sack European Commissioners and we cannot sack MEPs from other member states. (Even "our" MEPs do not represent UK constituencies or UK interests, they represent "EU regions".) I haven't the slightest doubt that the EU's ruling clique and the heads of certain member states will seek retribution against the UK if we choose to leave the EU, but you don't stay in a dysfunctional relationship because of threats from your partner. And besides, the EU is very far from holding all the cards. Apart from the aforementioned trade deficit there is the widespread disillusionment with "The Project" which runs far beyond our shores. Increasing numbers of people throughout Europe are asking themselves why they bother to stay. There is a domino effect poised and ready to happen.
"We" cannot sack senior civil servants in our Westminster government. And why do we want to? They are only following the instructions of elected officials. We cannot sack London MPs for not looking after the West Country. However, we've already discussed that issue as regards where sovereignty should begin and end. Your objections aren't compelling. A nice metaphor but dysfunctional marriages/partnerships don't scale up to very readily to the level of international relationships so I cannot accept that argument. An abused partner can leave the home if they have to but the UK has nowhere else to go but planet Earth, where it is still subject to influence from the "abusive partner". If the EU falls apart because it fails to work for the majority (or a significant minority) of members, then yes, obviously, it's time to leave. We aren't there yet but I don't deny the possibility that it will come to pass. However, let's leave the train when it's stopped at the station - not when it's still going.
This is going nowhere. Whitehall civil servants act (or rather they used to) on instruction from our own elected politicians who are answerable to the us the electorate and no-one else. Or, again, they used to be. European Commissioners require no instruction but their own. They have the power to countermand the European Parliament. They embody the antithesis of democracy. You talk as though the EU were a single nation. It isn't. Member states are not analogous to English counties. Any such comparison is disingenuous. Personally, when I can feel and see the train disintegrating around me I would prefer to pull the communication cord and step off in one piece rather than wait for the crash. But I would also wish to get off at the earliest opportunity if I was on the wrong train which was carrying me somewhere I had no wish to go. For me the EU fails on both counts and I shall continue to pull the cord until I can get off.
Agreed. No longer? Who, the politicians are no longer answerable, or the civil servants no longer follow instructions? Not being funny here, I just want to be sure what you are suggesting. I've not heard this suggested before. It was my understanding that European Commissioners follow the will of elected MEPs (or at least, they do as good a job of it as UK civil servants do for MPs). I had no idea they can veto policy. If true then they are indeed antithetic to democracy as I understand it. Not sure you are right though. I hope someone else can confirm this. I wouldn't seriously suggest that member states are to the EU what counties are to Westminster but then, Parliamentary constituencies themselves are not analogous to counties, either. No, my point is that the top level of government is almost entirely divorced from the individual voter, and the distance between voter and Westminster, and between voter and Brussels, is a distinction without a difference, in practical terms. In that case, we could only disagree on when the crash is ahead is likely to occur. Aside from that, I like the metaphor and sympathise with your POV. However, if there's no crash in sight, I stand by my view.
Godfrey Bloom Godfrey William Bloom TD (born 22 November 1949) is a British politician who served as a Member of the European Parliament (MEP) for Yorkshire and the Humber from 2004 to 2014. He was elected for the UK Independence Party in the European elections of 2004 and2009, representing UKIP until September 2013, when UKIP withdrew the party whip from him. He then sat as an Independent until the end of his term of office in May 2014. Bloom subsequently resigned his UKIP party membership on 13 October 2014.[4] For sure, May will be interesting. Recent poll here says 60% of Scots believe a large group of SNP MPs in 2015 is the only way to get Cameron/Clegg/milliband to deliver on "the vow" The Smith Commission falls way short of the vow.
So like I said, he isn't even a member of UKIP. He was, and presumably still is, a pompous dickhead. "The Vow" certainly will be a rallying call from the SNP at the next general election and no doubt there will be an increase in the SNP contingent at Westminster, the question is what will they then do, act democratically or abuse their position to bully their way to independence ?
