But they are individuals and to them the the issue is valid. It doesnt make their actions correct in our eyes but thats how they justify it
Im not sure I understand you there. Its simply an example of different situations where the level of offense taken is different
The people who are insulted by the depictions of the profit Mohammed arent going to simply not buy their weekly copy of Charlie because this week its got a picture in it that offends their religious sensibilities! Their point of view was that they were actively seeking out the people who insulted their god and religion to take revenge.
I am all for trying to see the discussion from both sides and it would be nice if both sides thought the same. Concessions have been extracted but nothing given in return, for the extremists it is a one way journey. Did you watch the Panorama program last night, did you listen to the spokesman from the Muslim Council of Britain ?
No one in their right mind would tell a Jimmy Saville joke under the circumstances you outlined. So how does this move us forward ?
No and no. Is what they were saying right? Did the program change your mind on anything or just tell us how we should have free speach and how terrifying the threat from Islam was? Personally I dislike Panorama intensely. I think its one of the most over-hyped pieces of programming on the BBC.....although ive not seen last nights so they may have turned over a new leaf.
Exactly. What they did was completely unacceptable by any normal standards. Are you seriously trying to suggest that the people at Charlie brought this upon themselves by publishing a cartoon ?
The program did tell that there are some moderate Muslims out there wishing to forge a new Islam, but it also showed that they were small in number, lacking resources and up against a well funded worldwide organisation who were gaining ground. The guy from MCB would have Sharia law for the UK tomorrow given half a chance. He showed no willingness to have any accommodation with British values, he knew with absolute certainty that he was right.
Are you trying to suggest that anyone who publishes anything about Mohammed isnt aware that they may be putting themselves in the spotlight of these fundamentalists? What happened in Paris shouldnt have happened in our world Im sure we'll all agree, but the media knows what it's doing. Theyre not naive enough to think that it would be ok and that there would be no issue. There were 2 policemen killed during the attack. 1 of them was stationed at the Charlie office permanently because of threats. Put it this way. Im going to walk up to the local nutter here and start insulting him because its my right to free speech (taken with a pinch of salt). Im going to get twatted. Should he do it? No. Should I expect it? Yes. Am I bringing it upon myself if he does hit me? Is it my fault he hit me? It's not my fault but I should reasonably expect its going to happen. Its just a question of bravery isnt it?
How about getting the local nutter off the street, everyone knows he is a threat to all and sundry. Maybe the local nutter has decided that anyone not dressed like himself should be subject to random attack. Are you going to avoid the street corner where the nutter hangs out, are you going to avert your eyes as you walk past, are you going to change your dress so as to not provoke him ? Your analogy.
Using that reasoning, it's your fault if you buy an expensive bike like a Ducati and someone steals it!!! After all, you "could reasonably have expected" it to be stolen. That's really dangerous thinking. Blame the victim why don't you? Fundamentalist Muslims in Afghanistan and Pakistan do that when they stone rape victims, so you'd be in good company.
Im supposed to be working! ;-) He's (probably) a nutter but he's not harming anyone at the moment so no. You wouldnt lock someone up because they were a bit strange would you? Or because they had different beliefs? Dont avoid him, just respect his space as you would anyone else. He's not fussed about what you wear.....thats not the issue
So you cannot tell Savile jokes in case you offend a group of people, all of whom were scarred by his actions. OK. And you cannot tell jokes about Mohammed because ... you could offend a group of people, all of whom were scarred by his actions? Have I go this right?
According to today's news Cameron has put the SAS on stand-by. What that could actually mean is debateable. I can't see those lads being on stand-by at Hereford would be of immediate use if gunfire erupted in the middle of London (or Manchester, say). In my opinion, all UK troops should be withdrawn back to the UK, certainly from conflict areas and stationed around the UK to beef up Border Control and potential targets. I consider that Plod could not effectively deal with a situation like the France incident now that resources have been so dramitcally reduced.
Panorama held up for public scrutiny what many "moderate" Muslims in this country REALLY feel about their hosts and gave huge time to others who disagreed with them. You should watch it on Iplayer.
