That's been my call since the beginning of the 'migrant crisis' Women and children dna checked to attain blood related links and men sent back to refugee camps on the boarder of Syria. They can then make whatever decision they wish, either fight or not. Now I'm not going to jump to conclusions until it's clarified, but it's looking possible that one of Friday's attackers passed through Greece early October this year claiming to be a refugee........this is based on the passport found on his body, nothing more at this stage However, Germany has just taken 100's of 1000's, many of which are young men without wife and children. Rightly or wrongly I'd close boarders now and start repatriation to the camps, women and children stay, men get sent back by force if necessary.
yip, i think that has to be the way, in fact i am gonna suggest it on the 28th at a venue i am attending and test the waters.
I get the impression that the UK Government and other state governments appear to think the way to tackle the problem is to hit the source, IE in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan etc. Unfortunately, they have been sleep-walking and have missed the fact that the source is no longer just the Middle East, but it has been allowed to migrate across to Europe and other continents and instead of one source there are now many. The only way to deal with the problem is to 'clean' each state, by closing all borders, then eradicating those that wish to pursue terrorist acts or support them.
I don't completely buy into the theory that it's all caused by recent Western interventions. As much as I don't care for Tony Blair and his fellow criminals,he didn't authorise Iraqi invasions without reason-Saddam had invaded Kuwait,and was gassing his own people. So it's all a bit too convenient for my taste,and ignores the fact that similar attacks,(by non-muslims,converted muslims,people of no faith whatsoever),have happened all over,with surviving terrorists claiming all sorts of justifications for their actions. Also,how does it explain that only a very,very small minority are moved to carry out murderous acts like this..what about the millions of others who attend mosques and practise their faith every week,why are they not radicalised? A single,"lone wolf",terrorist is impossible to predict,unless doctors/teachers/family members can identify characteristics or behaviours unique to someone who wants to commit violence on strangers. But it takes a certain set of circumstances that allows a terrorist group to develop. Something along the lines of first they have to be able to contact each other,(to share their grievances,second that contact has to be kept secret from others,third,they need to be able to arm themselves,and fourth they need finance. The Internet has made it incredibly easy for people of like mind to make contact and share ideas and theories,(we are all doing it on here!),and once contact is made it is not difficult to keep away from prying eyes and ears. Arms and weapons are relatively easy to acquire,(you can blame that on global trade-when I started going to Europe every suspicious truck from Europe got stripped and inspected,now millions of containers enter the country without a cursory glance).And there are willing sellers-plenty of small wars in poverty stricken countries,and backstreet AK-47s are just a couple of reasons for that. The finance necessary depends on the level and type of violence the perpetrators want to inflict-instruction for pipe bombs are freely available,I've no doubt that the ingredients are available too. If a kid wants an air ticket to the middle east,he can always sell the late model Corsa his doting mum and dad bought him,hoping to steer him away from extremism. Ease of secret communication,a glut of cheap weaponry,a relatively wealthy world...the only thing that's missing is a cause,and a willingness to follow it: "According to Scott Atran, a NATO researcher studying suicide terrorism, the available evidence contradicts a number of simplistic explanations for the motivations of terrorists, including mental instability, poverty, and feelings of humiliation.[10] Forensic psychiatrist and former foreign service officer Marc Sageman made an "intensive study of biographical data on 172 participants in the jihad," in his book Understanding Terror Networks.[11] He concluded social networks, the "tight bonds of family and friendship", rather than emotional and behavioral disorders of "poverty, trauma, madness, [or] ignorance", inspired alienated young Muslims to join the jihad and kill.[12] Author Lawrence Wright described the characteristic of "displacement" of members of the most famous Islamic terrorist group, al-Qaeda: What the recruits tended to have in common – besides their urbanity, their cosmopolitan backgrounds, their education, their facility with languages, and their computer skills – was displacement. Most who joined the jihad did so in a country other than the one in which they were reared. They were Algerians living inexpatriate enclaves in France, Moroccans in Spain, or Yemenis in Saudi Arabia. Despite their accomplishments, they had little standing in the host societies where they lived."[13] Scholar Olivier Roy describes the background of the hundreds of global (as opposed to local) terrorists who were incarcerated or killed and for whom authorities have records, as being surprising for their Westernized background; for the lack of Palestinians, Iraqis, Afghans "coming to avenge what is going on in their country"; their lack of religiosity before being "born again" in a foreign country; the high percentage of converts to Islam among them; their "de-territorialized backgrounds" – "For instance, they may be born in a country, then educated in another country, then go to fight in a third country and take refuge in a fourth country"; their nontraditional belief that jihad is permanent, global, and "not linked with a specific territory."[14] This profile differs from that found among recent local (as opposed to global) Islamist suicide bombers in Afghanistan, according to a 2007 study of 110 suicide bombers by Afghan pathologist Dr. Yusef Yadgari. Yadgari found that 80% of the attackers studied had some kind of physical or mental disability. The bombers were also "not celebrated like their counterparts in other Arab nations. Afghan bombers are not featured on posters or in videos as martyrs."[15] Daniel Byman, a Middle East expert at the Brookings Institution, and Christine Fair, an assistant professor in peace and security studies at Georgetown University say that many of the Islamic terrorists are foolish and untrained, perhaps even untrainable." Words in italics are shamelessly lifted from Wikipedia-theres a lot more interesting stuff on there if you care to read it
I cannot help that think that these religious extremists are every bit as horrified at, offended by and hateful of, the life choices we Westerners have made as we are of theirs. What we consider personal freedom, they consider evil perversion. Our self-expression is their insulting impiety. Our instinct for self-determination is their repudiation of their made-up deity. I'm trying to put on my most distorted, my most twisted set of glasses on to try to see why there is such fervent hatred of us. It can only possibly be because we are a living, breathing affront to everything they stand for, every bit as much as the fundamentalism they stand for is offensive and vile to me. The question remains - why don't I want to kill all "followers of Islam", indiscriminately and irrespective of their levels of fanaticism or moderateness? This throws me back into the argument that contradicts somewhat the points raised in Lightning's helpful post just up there - that mental illness is at the heart of this. The worst terrorist atrocities involve groups and organisations, which almost rules out psychopathy as the root cause - psychopaths rarely clump together in pairs, let alone groups (trashy US TV dramas notwithstanding). It must be something akin to mass hallucination or mass delusion. The problem is that the delusion, which is fed to each terrorist and feeds back from them, providing positive reinforcement, is so strong it overcomes many individuals' instinct for self-preservation. Lack of self-preservation stems from two main motivations (or one, the former arguably) - lack of sanity or a sense of self-sacrifice in the service of a greater cause. Who among us would hesitate to throw themselves in the way of harm to save a loved one? Many of us would sacrifice ourselves to save many strangers, even. Would you lay down your life to protect your country? Surely. These fanatics are fighting for what they believe in, but what they believe in is, to our eyes, wrong. Westerners will default to a live-and-let-live policy if there are no other factors involved - and as long as we don't have a George Bush or a Tony Blair at the helm. Our way of life (now, not in the Middle Ages) allows for an Islamic way of life, broadly speaking. The reverse is not true. The question is, why do some Islamic believers forego a milder version of their teachings and follow instead a more blood-thirsty line? It can only be that they feel that the World they live in, as it currently stands, is not one worth living in. Couple this with a fervent belief in an afterlife that rewards them for their "devotion" in this life and you must conclude, "Why wouldn't there be suicide bombers and murderous terrorists? It's inevitable." Solutions - make the World a better fit for the extremists' vision of how things should be. Hmm, not keen. Eliminate the script, the idea, on which they base their lives. Hmm, that won't happen. 1.2 billion Muslims aren't going to forget that they follow Islam. Destroying an idea never really works. Understand better why extremists are being created and work at mitigating the circumstances. Tricky, but possible over time to understand the processes. Changing our (Western) behaviours might be hard. Is extremism created because two different cultures, sets of values, live side-by-side in our streets? Is it created when we invade a sovereign nation of Muslims? Is it because we flaunt our freedoms in the media and cause specific offence to Muslims? Is it all of these, and more? Is the current cat-and-mouse intelligence game we are playing with fundamentalist Islam working? Is it working well enough? What can we change and what should we not change?
As far as I can tell, these people, sorry, bastard cowards; are against Western Foreign Policies and interference in their way of life. The problem is, that if the West had not intefered or didn't have Foreign Policies, they would still 'complain' about that....It is the way they are, their culture.
This is a very good point. So many times we see people in war-torn or otherwise troubled Muslim countries on our TV screens begging the west to come to their aid ("we are dying Mr Obama, Mr Cameron, why do you not help us"). The trouble is one man's humanitarian intervention is another man's infidel imperialism. We cannot help one section of these societies without enraging another. We're damned if we're do and damned if we don't. We're particularly damned by armchair moralists at home who decry the evils of our imperial past while insisting that we have some ethical duty to wade into other people's countries and "do" something when they are making a mess of governing themselves. Unfortunately all too many of our politicians belong to that class.
if their hatred of the west is so strong why do they do any sort of trade with em? is their love of money more? why flock to the west in the hope of making a better life then try to change it to their stone age ways whilst driving a nice big silver Mercedes.. I live in Southall which has a huge Muslim population, (although its a modest shit hole) there is plenty of wealth amongst them. yet ive never seen any fund raising at all to help their fellow muslims caught up in conflict abroad.. no posters for "buy a blanket for a syrian child this winter.." Yes it may go on in private, but i would have thought the best way to inspire your host nation to help their plight would be to perhaps put on a few fundraisers and what not, to educate and show what a warm and great-full culture they are.. not kill or condone the killing of random innocent people who (like myself) are totally against the violence dished out by any side... from what ive seen they are capitalists that are out for personal gain the same as us westerners. the only difference being they claim religious reasons for being animals towards women and the persecution of other cultures.
There are plenty of Muslim charities but they seem to specialise in helping only fellow Muslims, and even more oddly, recruiting help only from fellow Muslims. On an international and governmental level the Islamic world seems to possess no sense of fraternity at all. I don't recall Islamic nations falling over themselves to help fellow Muslims in Srebrenica. They were happy to leave that job to the infidels. Perhaps the Bosnians were the wrong sort of Muslims. Perhaps white Muslims don't count. How can the west formulate a coherent approach to its dealings with the Islamic world when that world is so riven with divisions, contradictions and inconsistencies?
Extremists dealt with in the same way as high treason, even those preaching it. Anyone going to fight for any kind of Islamic loonatics is treated as an enemy of the state and if they return will be charged with high treason. In the UK you can still be hung for high treason. Closed boarders to migrants. Still amazes me how they will fight to get to europe but wont fight for thier own soil. Fuck Bob Geldolf, Lenny Henry and any other liberal do gooders who want our money to save the migrants. Safety first in my book, time to look after Europe.
As an installer of ventilation etc I've attended plenty of sites that are supposed to be learning centres, youth clubs and other general meeting places that are clearly be run as mosques. E.g. separate areas for men and women, shoe racks and being told to remove my work boots at the door. The local councils turn a blind eye to these and when residents complain little if anything is done. In some areas of london the number of secret mosques is startling. Like pubs in the 1960-70s
anyone got any info on what the Arab nations (you know the richest on the planet) donate to their fellow Muslims in aid and i dont mean the terrorist ones.. the ones in need of blankets...
