Indeed. Clearly there are vested interests on both sides and does anyone really know what will happen either way, for every expert with one opinion there another with a contrary opinion. Fo me it is the principle of ultimate sovereignty, rightly or wrongly.
Fair enough, if that's your preference. We should all be able to choose what flavour ice cream we can have (even if we have no choice at all over whether or not we have ice cream).
Agreed, but thats also part of the reason I feel we should leave. If the political parties themselves have very little understanding of what can be changed to the benefit, then it would suggest to me its simply been a nonsense idea from the start. There may well be certain countries that have benefitted far greater from being part of the EU than others, I'm just not sure we've been one of them or whether things would have been detrimentally worse if we hadn't joined. That fact that non of the leading brains in the country can say either way (or at least agree) makes me sceptical.
This is why i will vote to leave, as it seems nobody can actually agree on what the pro's and cons are. From that alone it surely isn't worth it, if it was then we'd all know....and we don't. Its like some weird type of insurance policy we've taken out, we're insured for something that apparently could be really bad.....but nobody knows what that really bad thing is, when its likely to happen or what would happen if we didn't have the insurance.
No. I mean democratically. If our government, in our sovereign Parliament, doesn't do a better job of it we can sack them and elect another, with no one but the British electorate getting a say. We cannot do that now. Politics is not about the pursuit of perfection. That is impossible because not all the electorate want the same thing. It is about representation and accountability.
We will never be able to do that. In or out. We cannot "sack and elect" because it is the same crew who takes over, with just a different branding. You are talking like someone who hates the idea of supermarkets and so stops shopping at Tesco and goes to Sainsburys instead. Whoever holds a majority at Westminster, nothing truly changes. There is fiddling around the margins depending on which flavour is in charge but no fundamental changes will ever occur. No argument here. What I am challenging is the idea that by exiting the EU, you will in any real sense change how "democracy" in this country operates. I say nothing important will be altered except in around the margins. If you can exploit those margins ahead of everyone else, then maybe Brexit will be "a good thing".
The major question for me with the EU as it stands now is that in theory it looks after the best interests of the majority sometimes to the detriment of the minority as does any ruling body. The question no one seems to be able to answer credibly is whether we are in the majority more often or the minority. If it's the former we are better of in and if it's the minority we are better off out. As purely a trading partner outside you are in theory making a decision in your own bests interest 100% of the time rather than being in the EU winning majority say only 25% of the time. In know it's not that simple in reality but that is the crux of the question generally. As it's unlikely we will ever get a credible answer to that people will go with their gut and more than any referendum I think voters will be voting more on instinct than any factual basis. To me it seems like Germany has far too much sway in the decision making within the EU, If Merkel says no it likely won't happen and vice versa. When you have a powerhouse within a union, it's obvious that the powerhouse will tilt the balance more often than not in their favour much as the SNP argue for the UK situation. For me that means the question is how aligned is the UK with Germany. If it's not very then it's likely we will be in the minority group more often than the majority etc etc. As a side note my wife works for an agency that helps long term unemployed back into work. The money they get comes from Europe, not the uk government so I have a vested interest in us staying in but I still am slightly swayed that we are a minority player partly by our own making at the minute.
I understand where you are coming from here and basically agree with you, although issues like Trident and the role of the state do separate the main parties, or leaders anyway; for most people most of the time which party is in power is immaterial. It is the old by elites for elites argument, who constitutes the elite may change with time but they are always there.
I can't agree there mind. Let's stop cowering down to the scare mongers of doom that say we'll become an irrelevant little island in the middle of the Atlantic. I personally think it'll be the making of us.
