Your plot, not mine. I just notice what I originally posted - an increasing gap between rich and poor and economies in a complete meltdown which the supposed power of the world's biggest trading block has been incapable of addressing. And yes, corporate interests are the biggest winners: cheap labour, wherever you want it, whatever that means for local inhabitants and economies. If members like it like that and the UK population doesn't, then yes, maybe time to leave.
If I may borrow from Lincoln a moment: ...that this nation, under Goat, shall have a new birth of freedom— And that government of the (right) people, By (a tiny minority of) the people For the people (as long as they are bankers) Shall make sackfuls of cash for our chums.
All we want to do is buy and sell with each other, which was the original concept. The unelected federalists have taken over the show. Lets have an amicable divorce and go back to the original plan.
However it was never the original plan, unfortunately. Ever closer political and economic integration has been a core principle of the EU from the very beginning.
Don't ask political questions, you're a girl :Stop: and you will be ignored... silly, silly DB :Wideyed:
Those that have an interest in staying in the EU will be vocal. Whether currently funded, applying for funding, or hoping to find the address to post the form. Industry will be careful in responding. The vote is not with industry, it's with you to decide. No doubt you will hear reports of certain redundancy, starvation and sea levels will rise. It's all nonsense. I respect those that have already made the decision. But are you making the decision based on the now, or the future? Ask yourself, is the UK heading for a future after your vote. I hear people talking about me me me, my life my life. Fair enough if that's what matters, but what about the legacy you leave.
I like travelling through Europe,and I enjoy meeting many Europeans. I like a lot of the food and many European systems and practices seem far more efficient than ours in the UK. BUT: In the early Seventies,we we were told we would be joining a Common Market,which would make it easier for us to travel through,work in,and trade with Europe. We were not told that joining the EU would lead to ever-closer Union. We were not told that Germany and France dominated the EU to such an extent. We were not told that other countries would be bribed,(with EU member states money),to join the EU. We were not told that there would be unlimited immigration into Europe from outside the Union. And we were not told that there would be no harmonisation of the laws,rules and regulations that affect the majority of us. And so the UK voted to join. The net effect of our membership is that many UK industries have been disadvantaged to the benefit of the same industries in other member states:manufacturing businesses have moved to far-flung countries to avoid unnecessary regulation and social costs imposed by the EU:and the generosity of the UK with regard to welfare,lack of identity checks and free healthcare has put made the UK a go to destination for many EU migrants who might not be welcome in other EU countries. As much as I like Europe,I will vote to leave.
It OK to like Europe and European countries and cultures but dislike the EU. The two things are not the same. I'm voting OUT as well.
I intend to help redress the immigration balance by moving to Italy as soon as I can, so "in" for purely selfish reasons. Good points made, for and against BTW.
Why would you need the EU to move to Italy? People from the big wide world beyond Europe move around and settle in countries other than the one they were born in. People in Europe did too before the EU was conceived and they will still be doing so after it has gone.
The first thing ought to be the repeal of the European Communities Act. In reality nothing will be repealed. There'll be interminable rounds of "negotiations" to sort out Britain's terms of trade as a non-member, led no doubt, by Mr Cameron who will do all that he can to ensure that our new relationship is as indistinguishable as possible from the old one. The time scale of these negotiations will be about three years which means by an odd coincidence that the conclusion will be reached just before the general election (which Mr Cameron can't lose because there is no opposition) presenting him with a golden opportunity to claim his inevitable victory and increased majority as electoral endorsement of his non-existent severance deal and turning his unopposed re-election into an unofficial second referendum delivering by stealth the "correct" result. He will then resign and become a European Commissioner.
The UK must look to sell globally and be free to negotiate it's own trade deals to suit us. The EU is stagnant and the Euro a broken experiment. UK business is burdened with unnecessary rules and regulations that make us less competitive. I believe we will be even more attractive to International investment in UK manufacturing if we have an easier labour market. Wages also will be raised especially at the lower end. We can attract people that we want and need in the UK, not people who need the UK. Sorry if this comes across as selfish but I see our values being eroded. I really struggle to see the benefit of staying in so please tell me what the big advantages are if you can. These need to be advantages to the UK and not advantages for the whole of Europe. In my industry (and we manufacture) the EU is not an open market that we can realistically operate in (too many barriers that should not be there!) and the technical committees that put new regulations in place has been nothing but bad news; and please don't get me started on CE marking...... PS Excellent article here: The true costs and benefits of staying in the EU - or leaving - Telegraph
I think the important thing in any negotiation is to know where the power really lies. You don't want to overestimate, or underestimate your hand. As a net importer of EU goods, the EU has every reason to try to maintain the status quo. It isn't going to threaten Britain credibly with no access to the EU market if we leave. Or if it does, it will just be a negotiating posture and Britain may have to call its bluff. So would access to markets be dependent on free movement of people? I don't see why it should, although I have no doubt that the EU will try it on. Switzerland can be bulled by the EU, to a certain extent, because it is small. The UK, as the world's 5th largest economy, is not small and the EU has every interest in finding an arrangement that suits the UK. Cameron has to play tough. It's either really radical reforms and we stay in, or they aren't and we leave. I very much doubt that the EU will grasp this nettle while it has the chance. It will try to call our bluff and offer next to nothing. This is because the EU doesn't do nettle-grasping - it is essentially sclerotic. Viz the migrant crisis and the Euro crisis. So it is going to have to be presented with a fait accompli, meaning that it will only start to negotiate once we have left. This leads me to think that leaving is the best option. There is no way that I would vote for Switzerland to join the EU, so logically, that must mean that I think that the UK is better out. We aren't going to be sending back migrants who are already in the UK, any more than EU countries are going to be sending back British ex-pats. And immigration won't stop, it will just be controlled and slow down. If Britain wants any control over immigration, it is going to have to vote out, I reckon. Of course, I still think that the biggest problem with immigration to the UK is not with Europeans, whose cultures are reasonably assimilable, but with people from outside Europe whose cultures often aren't. And that has nothing to do with skin colour or race, but purely culture and education.
From the article. "Due to inherent flaws, the Eurozone must either integrate or disintegrate." The architects of the Euro knew this, it was part of their game plan from the very beginning.
Maybe, but that doesn't change anything much, unless you want to cultivate a sense of injustice at having been somehow lied to!
