the big lies wont start until the date is set. it will be a v,short campaign.shorter the better for the out mob. camoron wants out. he is just going through the motions. sure of it. he developed along with the meeja (as wee ginger dug puts it) the "BRITNAT" during the indireff and you are being played like a kipper. whether or not it was intentional or not i dont know. but it wont be camoron telling the lies (not the big ones this time anyhoo) the media will do that form him. and trust me. there will be plenty. i could post page after page after page of debunked meega storys of impending doom. the biggest one of all "scotland was better in the EU but wont qualify for entry in to the EU" yip we where told that continually just 16months ago. so BRITNATS whats the problem? dont like your neighbors coming here steeling all your jobs? all those hoards taking your homes and benefits? bloody Germans ruling the roost? the surrender monkeys and the agriculture subsidies? poor down trodden BRITNAT. depending on the polls nearer the date. that's whats coming.
I don't know where you get the idea that Cameron is a Eurosceptic Fin. He's been a corporatist Europhile since day one. During his "call me Dave", sleeves rolled up, noteless leadership campaign he struggled to stop himself winking to the in-crowd in the front row when he claimed to be "Eurosceptic by instinct". The real issue here which no one is talking about is the new EU treaty which has long been planned and will be ratified in about five year's time. This is intended to create a de-facto United States of Europe and would nullify any minute cosmetic tweaks Cameron will claim he has won. The treaty among other things will create EU tax harmonisation, an EU coastline with an EU coastguard agency (if you think Westminster has trespassed on Scottish waters you ain't seen nothing yet - "Scottish" waters won't exist, they'll be EU waters), an EU police force and an EU army and a collective EU foreign policy. A centrally governed superstate in other words in which the UK and our interests will wield less than 9% of the vote share. If Scotland becomes independent and rejoins the EU on its own, its voting power within EU institutions will be so small as to be almost unmeasurable. Of course the EU's assumption is that you do not see yourself as British, or Scottish, but will have come to embrace the synthetic new identity created for your and will happily goosestep along to the Ode To Joy with your fellow Euro citizenry. Because each treaty supercedes the last - the ratchet effect - all Mr Cameron's piffling concessions will be void and because we'll have had one carefully controlled and meaningless referendum with the result pretty much predetermined, you can be guaranteed we won't get another when it really matters. If you want to identify conspiracies and lies don't look at what the big players are saying - most of that is just opinion however melodramatic it might be - and opinion isn't necessarily lies, damn lies and conspiracy just because it is opinion your do not share: look at what they're not telling you.
Fin,did you actually read the earlier posts? Unless those contributors,(including myself),are somehow,"special",and can see into the future,those of us who are not keen on staying in the EU came to our conclusions without media or political propaganda to convince us. I'm definitely not,"special",and I don't believe those other,"out",choosers are soothsayers either,so what makes you think that yer average non-Ducati-forum-member voter will be any different? There will be a section of voting society that will be/ might be manipulated by scare stories,but a lot are so cynical of media motives that we no longer listen or take note of what they say-hence the unexpected Conservative victory in the recent polls. For every "out",horror story,there's an ,"in" media mob frenzy-one of them was the attempt to lower the voting age,as the young are more likely to be "guided". Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they have been misled.The same went for your Independence vote,so for the last time get over it,and better luck next time. You keep banging the drum about Scotland being over ruled by the rest of us,but you seem to imply that the rest of the UK should endure the EU because it suits the Scots minority. Bit of a hypocrisy there Fin,yes? If the UK as a whole,(a big IF), decide they want out,you'll be able to vote yourself back in if (a big IF) you win your next Indie vote It very much sounds like you consider yourself a free thinker and your view is immune to manipulation by politicians and the media? So please allow others to consider themselves similarly independent of thought...
nigal lawson told me this morning at 4am the editor of the sun told me last night that cammoron is a euro skeptic. who do you believe? the up shot to this is it wont be the whole 100% of the establishment and meega campaigning for brexit
mate. i am drawing parallels between this and THAT campaign. if i was to believe what i read in the papers the separatists are knuckle dragging,brainwashed.nasty nationalist,Nazis. all quoted in the so called respected daily's. why did cammoron tell us 16months ago we where better of in europe but according to his mates he is a euro skeptic? and is now creating the circumstances to leave? (not had a chance to read yours or gimlets post properly yet. just the first lines.)
However it does emphasise that the Project has only one gear with no reverse and compromise is highly unlikely. It must integrate to survive and like any organism it will do anything to survive.
There is a difference between being a sceptic and an outer, I believe Cameron will claim a victory of sorts and say we are better in.
I noted that the ESA head guy referred to Tim Peake as a European who speaks with a British accent. Tells you all you need to know about the EU mindset at a high level. As @Gimlet says the United States of Europe is coming very soon.
i dont believe a word camoron says. rod for your own back and all that. just wait till the day after the uk vote to stay in and merkle walks out to give a press conference stating European laws for mainland Europeans. bitter together? yer dam tootin.
I'm afraid a lot of people are playing games. Unfortunately this isn't a game. Its about the continued existence of our country, self-determination, representative democracy and the legacy we pass on to our descendants. Its more important than games.
Hmm reading that report, does not give many reasons to stay in EU, and the only real reason to stay are based on re-negotiation, and quite frankly cant see EU giving us anything special, as if they give us, then every tom, dick, and harry will want special concessions. I do feel that report is a little bias pushing how it can help everyone especially lower wage earners benefiting, I do not see that happening over night, and large corporate will soak up all the gains and not pass it down the line like they should. There is one big gain especially for Health service, the Rules and regulations are a mine field with many changes being forced with the health and safety guidelines, including the CFPP and HTM regulatory bodies which at present have so many guidelines that no one never knows which ones to follow, these problems have cost the Health service, and private sector millions over the years keep changing it's policies to try and keep up to date. which promptly gets changes again. I am starting to favor Leave, but it will be years before we see any real benefit. As a Country we should all really push to leave which on this poll looks like it, as it will give us far more bargaining power to get a better deal out of the EU before that final decision.
The only honest politicians are born north of the border eh Fin? Like the irreproachable Tony Blair,the upstanding Gordon Brown,and the principled genius Alistair Darling,to name but a very few Or is wearing a kilt the only thing that brings out the truth in people?
I believe that the leading political leaders etc are in place because they are pro Euro. I don't believe what they say, but do try to understand what they are not saying. Someone has pointed out, the EU has further plans to ensure the EU becomes the superstate that has been in the planning. It's happening. No negotiations, no concessions, you are in or out. One Government, one tax, one law.
i don't know how you came to that conclusion. and deffo wont be getting in to that. but i doubt v.much if any other party or government are under such scrutiny.
Absolutely agree. Once Germany and France see that the polls are showing that the UK leaving is looking likely they will start delivering some real concessions. The risk is that these will just be "intentions" and subject to ratification and agreement by all member states.....Just look at how Westminster jumped at the 11th hour when the Scots looked like leaving the UK. I don't want to end up bitter and twisted like Finm and the rest of them Yes, the article was somewhat focused on the leaving advantages but we will soon be flooded with the massive perils of leaving; companies packing up and leaving London and the UK, EU exports halted, crumbling currency values, loss of millions of jobs, island floating into oblivion...doom, doom, etc and mostly poorly thought out nonsense IMO.
