The BritNat Unionist/ EU OUT lobby reject the arguments for the EU and yet deploy those exact same arguments in favour of the Union. As Fin, pointed out wrt one of JohnVs post. The hypocrisy is staggering. I do think that the British Establishment thinks Scotland doesnt have a memory. It's no wonder Cameron wants a quick campaign, the more airtime these get, the worse it looks.
I lived there for 4 years, my 2 youngest kids were born there and my Sister has lived there for 45 years. So I have a pretty good idea where Scotland is. As for the rest.....did you not understand my point? Just in case......I'm saying that of course an Independent Scotland would be invited to be part of NATO. But being in that club would mean waving rights to ban Spanish ships from Scotish waters, which is what Finm was suggesting, if they (Spain) black balled Scotland's membership of the EU.
Well you seem to have already forgotten that is was Scots that voted to remain in the UK............... We didn't even get asked
Maybe I am picking you up wrong, but you seem to be saying that EU and NATO membership are linked, when they aren't. Norway, Iceland and Greenland are not in the EU. All in NATO. Sco could be in in NATO and not in the EU, in which case the Spanish can't fish. Spain can't object to Indy Scotland being in the EU. ANGELA MERKEL won't allow that. Their fisherman won't be pleased either. Scotland's strategic position wrt to the Atlantic means it will always be welcomed in NATO.
See post 253. It's the military aspect I was challenging. Fishing rights are a different kettle of...er....er...fish?
Ah....methinks a little bit too late :cry: Now...if WE HAD been asked .........but then the result would be our fault ........oh ....hang on
Needless to say I do not agree. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is greater than the sum of it's parts, a Union that has worked for over 300 years and last time they were asked a majority of Scots agreed with this. The EU is an inefficient organisation that lacks democratic accountability, despite what @Pete1950 says, and is bringing misery to millions. What I find staggering is that a minority of Scots want to throw off the English yoke, if it exists, yet are more than happy to replace it with an EU noose. If a majority of Scots wish to leave the Union then no doubt it will happen, although personally I do not think a simple majority of those who vote is sufficient, it should be a majority of the entire Scottish population.
SNP used the OBR figures. Oil revenues are impossible to predict. As usual, you omit that oil is not that important to the economy, and is becoming less and less so as time moves on.
You haven't noticed that what Angela says, goes. Spain owes Germany so much money they are in no position to bargain. But believe what you want.
And the detailed data from The Treasury itself, to back up the above. Worked for who ? We already have an "EU noose" or do you think that England is some kind of magic shield which protects Scotland from it? Seriously........what reality do you see?
Timing was not the issue. The issue is one of trust, acting honourably, respecting the will of the people who live in Scotland, and playing with a straight bat. None of which are qualities found anywhere near David Cameron. He got his message at the general election with 56 SNP MPs. He rejected every amendment to The Scotland bill supported by 58 out of 59 Scottish MPs and has ignored the wishes of the people. The referendum is dead and gone. It is the will of people TODAY he is riding roughshod over. His lies, arrogance and Colonialist attitude will not be forgotten.
Carry on. No one's stopping you but yourselves. I don't support the Union any more than I support the EU. I think a federal alliance of sovereign nations would be a much better arrangement. Better than the present union of the Crown and far better than the nations of Britain, whether singly or collectively being subsumed within a European single state. And I think this will become more likely if the UK votes to leave the EU. And I wouldn't be surprised if Ireland followed the UK out of the door and joined a federal alliance of the British Isles. (British, as I hope would be obvious, in the geographical not the political sense).
Not me. See above. The OUT and the Union lobby are not the same thing. (Is there even a union lobby? Outside the political establishment and their media sponsors I don't think there is. Political elites, media moguls and professional lobbyists don't own the country and they don't have a monopoly on political opinion. But no one's asked the rest of us what we think, have they?) In the same way that not all Scottish nationalists will be SNP republican socialists. There are of right wing free market independence supporters as well. Stereotypes paint a false picture. Politics is far more nuanced than that.
