I was party to some inside info when they were attempting to push Bernie out, but it backfired. He has a lot of dirt on a lot of people...
Can a clever man be bigoted, misogynistic and corrupt ? Does understanding someone imply you agree with them ?
i dont know but it doesnt make for good reading try it with someone like hitler and see how you get on
You have just done it again, read in a value judgement that wasn't there or even implied :Wideyed:. The correct answers were That doesn't imply I admire someone who is bigoted, misogynistic and corrupt, or that if I understand someone is bigoted, misogynistic and corrupt that I agree with them.
no matter what, i think its fair to say if yer a wummin get oot the drivers seat and leave it to the men. when it comes to driving or any competition, we rock they walk! :smileys:
Bernie is not stupid for obvious reasons not saying he is a nice guy or not. I've raced, if you can call it that, more of a later in life apprenticeship in racing really, my ability is less than semi skilled level if that, and I know female drivers who are better than me. At National club level, Slicks and wings can be quicker than some British Superbike Rounds, even quicker than the bike lap records, that gives you an idea of the expectation even at a upper club level, which perhaps explains the requirements to progress. Some young drivers who have the budget to progress into career racing (career in this case does not mean paid racing, it means building a CV like passing exams to get a good job) still very briefly race in a less known formula at a faster pace, than the lower level career championships. If they win or gain lap records which they should. I would guess/know they go to teams in F4 of Formula MSA etc with a continual track records of win % etc.. perhaps negotiate a better drive package. These are not young drivers that are green, they are already very talented. However many do jump right into Career level (feeder championships) from being well financed super fast karters. I have experienced of a future potential F1 driver who already had the skills and race craft to get on the podium straight off in his first National (club) single seater race. It's not uncommon and it is very impressive to see a young driver who can't yet drive a road car do this. If a young career orientated driver does decide to go the less direct route and can't meet that expectation at National Club level in 1/2 a season, forget racing in career feeder championships competitively with drivers from around the world because nearly all of them can and you are going to look silly on TV. Trying this is a ground for improvement, not learning the basics. Not to mention the whole time the clock is ticking. I wonder how many F1 reserve drivers never get a drive while waiting to do so.. Unfortunately not may women take part or do get on the podium in Club Level single seaters recently, which is less competitive in some ways than the career route feeder championships, some do but not many. I'd have to suggest looking at respected Karting Championships for that reason, as the Karting champions that come through tend to be Male from what I've seen. Despite lower physical corner forces involved. I guess from my limited experience with Karts, that some young girls age 6 - 11 may find it quite demanding to physically turn the wheel while racing. How many little girls can do press ups and pull ups without training? I think at Bambino or Cadet age, I would have struggled to turn the wheel while driving at the race speeds Kids Karts do. Youtube is worth a looking at MSA Bambio or Cadet Karts, it's impressive. There are so many of these Kart championships. I don't know which are the ones that are respected by F1 teams but I know proper Karting can cost as much as buying a small house. National MSA championships have got faster over several years with career level drivers entering at club evel briefly and I can't think of any Female podiums in several years but could be wrong as there are many. I'm only thinking of British females (racing in slicks and wings) not Danica Patrick which is another story. Racing is physical with slicks and wings, I could point you to recent post where a female karter, stepped up to (club) National racing single seater who mentioned upper body strength. I expected her to be in the top 3 in her first race, I'm sure she will do better in her next. Females do win races. However there is more to racing, regs, pace, type of competitors etc.. You can make the stats work for you when dealing with public media to some extent so it's a bit muddy to go on hearsay alone. I'd look to compare lap times with cars of same spec (year/regs) on the same circuits, on the same tyres, same weather etc... A non legal car (testing) could produce much faster lap times than a legal one, it's not about being able to drive it's about being able to compete at a high level while racing. Anyone 2 secs off the race pace is quick but they might never be able to get that time down to race winning pace. Out of curiosity, how does the fastest female rider at the TT compare on pace? I've never checked, is that as fast as the top 5 or 10 Guys? Do fans of these women know the names of the Males riders at the same pace? if not, why not, if you are into racing, because the guys that are not competitive are insignificant but the women, get the recognition because they are Female, the fastest female... Last week some guy proudly pulled out a photo of him and a female bike racer he carries. I said do you know (a bike racer that I do). He replied no. I said well he runs just inside the top ten but he is faster than her. It's not sexist, arm chair fans love fast women (they are sexy) but racing is about delivering the goods. If you want equality that's challenging. Many of us can't deliver the goods at that level but we don't expect special treatment or special recognition, you can't have it both ways. I have nothing but respect for faster women, anyone who trys anything challenging even and I hope a fast lady makes it to F1 but I do not like hearing the semi feminist BS about it. If a guy was running in non respected competitive championship or pace with questionable track record but was boasting in advance about future success or saying they are hard done by can you imagine, he'd be ripped a new one. When the flag drops the BS stops.
He's never heard of Jutta Kleinschmidt either, obviously... Biography If a woman can't have the physical strength to race an F1 car, then how come one has won the Dakar Rally ? 17 Dakar participations with six top-5 finishes, incidentally... I've no doubt the man is clever, has the ability to "schmmoze" with the best of them, and has made an obscene ammount of money - the fact remains, he's an odious little twat !
Try giving birth then ask what physical strength is I'm sure the silly old duffer couldn't manage that !!!! Tosser
Do you perhaps underestimate the requirements to be a top F1 driver? Rally is also very impressive too but it's not the same, not saying is harder or easier or some skills don't cross reference but it is different. Looking at Stats and this has been discussed before online. Danica Patrick would not most likely cut it, Danica Patrick | Racing career profile | Driver Database Look at the last 3 years and consider the type of racing. nor Susie Wolfe. Susie Wolff | Racing career profile | Driver Database although her wiki profile presents well, it's still not likely comparable which I guess the team knows, they will have data on her in a F1 car. Wolff began karting from an early age, and in 1996 she was named the British Woman Kart Racing Driver of the year. In 1997, she competed in a number of different karting categories and succeeded in most of them. She was first in the 24hr Middle East Kart Championship, champion in both the Scottish Junior Intercontinental "A" and the Scottish Open Junior Intercontinental "A" categories and was again named British Woman Kart Racing Driver of the year.[5] In 1998 she moved up to the British Junior Intercontinental "A" Championship and was placed 10th overall in her first season in the class. She also competed in the Federation Cup European Intercontinental "A" Championship and she was placed 11th overall.[citation needed] For the third year in a row, she was named British Woman Kart Racing Driver of the year.[5] In 1999, she competed in the British Formula "A" Championship and was placed 13th overall. She also achieved 34th overall in the Formula "A" World Championships and again was named British Woman Kart racing driver of the year. The year 2000 saw Wolff improve on her previous performance in the British Formula "A" Championship where she came 10th overall this time around and she also improved on her previous performance in the Formula "A" World Championships where she was placed 15th overall. She also won an award which named her as the Top Female Kart Driver in the world.[6] Formula Renault (2001–04)[edit] In 2001 Wolff made the step up from kart racing to single-seater racing. Her first experience was in the 2001 Formula Renault Winter Series, in which she raced for the Motaworld Racing team. The following year she made her debut in the full Formula Renault UK Championship for DFR Racing, and again competed for Motaworld in the Formula Renault Winter Series. In 2003, she again competed in the Formula Renault UK Championship where she finished 9th overall and made her first podium finish this season as well. She achieved recognition for her efforts this year as she was selected as one of the finalists in the prestigious BRDC McLaren Autosport Young Driver of the Year Award and was selected as the BRDC Rising Star of the Year. In 2004 she competed in her third season in the Formula Renault UK Championship, this time racing for the Comtec Racing team and she finished 5th overall in the championship with 3 podium finishes during the year.[7] Formula Three (2005)[edit] For 2005, Wolff made the step up to the British Formula 3 Championship to race for the Alan Docking Racing team in the Championship Class, but her season was disrupted by an ankle injury sustained during the winter. She also made a one-off appearance in the Porsche Carrera Cup GB at Brands Hatch in June.[7] DTM (2006–12)[edit] In 2006 Wolff made the step up to compete in the DTM, the German Touring Car series, one of the biggest Touring Car championships in the world. She drove a 2004-spec Mercedes-Benz C-Class Coupe for the Mücke Motorsport team and was team-mates with Stefan Mücke and Daniel la Rosa. In her debut season she achieved a best finish of 9th overall in the final round of the season at the Hockenheimring. In 2007 Wolff remained in the DTM series, driving a 2005-spec Mercedes-Benz C-Class Coupe for the Mücke Motorsport team and was team-mates with Mathias Lauda and Daniel La Rosa. Her best finish was at Mugello in Italy, where she finished in 10th place. In the 2008 season Wolff moved up to a 2007-spec car, and joined Persson Motorsport, where she drove alongside Mathias Lauda andGary Paffett. Wolff's best performance of the year was at the Norisring in June, where she finished in 10th position. In the 2009 DTM season Wolff remained with Persson Motorsport in a 2008-spec car, alongside her team-mate Jamie Green. In the first race of the season at the Hockenheimring, Wolff had to retire after 24 laps because of damage caused by a first-lap accident with Gary Paffett.[8] Susie results are good, I'd be proud of them but cross reference them to those who are racing or those who are getting somewhere or have. To understand racing properly you'd need to be a bit more involved or look a bit deeper than most fans who only watch the top level stuff which is heavily promoted. For example some championships in Bahrain I've seen or Asia or winter series might not have the same level of competition as some in Britain, some classes A or B class may not be as competitive / low attendance etc.. It's hard to follow but people don't generally promote them selves with negative info so you won't always get the same response publicly as you might privately asking the same questions. This is what a competitive British kid starting out looks like, this is at 17 years old who can already put in consistent lap time 1/10 apart over 25 min race on big circuits and win comfortably, racing at Pro le Mans British GT pace, yet while only racing in a perhaps much less recognised, National Single seater (club) racing series. Some might say he is only just really just stepping up to career feeder championships where the competition will increase, then the next stage the car performance will increase... Formula Renault 3.5Ltr or GP2 is a very good indication of ability to compete at top level. Achievments to date 2008 MBKC Invitation Champion 2009 Cadet Ace of clubs Champion 2010 Mini Champion 2010 Mini cup winner 2010 Mini Club Champion 2011 Mini Max British Number 4 2011 Mini Max Champion 2011 Rotax Cup Champion 2011 Jnr Max Masters Champion - 2012 British Jnr Rotax Number 5 2012 MBKC Club Champion 2013 British Jnr Rotax Open Champion 2013 British ABKC vice Jnr Champion 2015 Formula 1000 Champion 2016 Competing in the British Formula 3 championship Has been invited to Ferrari F1 Academy. lewis Williamson apparently raced in a championship I was involved with Red Bull drops Williamson from its junior programme, promotes Felix da Costa - FV8 3.5 - Autosport It looks like he did not make it. There are several. Piere Grassly is one guy being supported by Redbull but he may not get chance while waiting and look at his career history, Pierre Gasly | Racing career profile | Driver Database > 2nd in formula renualt 3.5ltr 2014. I think a driver I met William Buller, is not a F1 test driver yet? (I may be wrong) look as his career history overall. William Buller | Racing career profile | Driver Database Now consider Hamiliton: Lewis Hamilton | Racing career profile | Driver Database history. My opinion, you can't say it is unfair for women unless they are meeting the standard and are still being dismissed. If a Female won top level karting outright, came through single seater championships and got a win in GP2 there is no doubt they would get a drive, even though there are many guys who do this and do not. Being humiliated on track is not what top level motorsport is about nor does it help career progression, a bad season or two could end career. The learning is through coaching and testing, if you start racing and don't get wins you cast doubt on your ability as there are better drivers to choose from. You could nit pick and say not all the best drivers are driving which is true but how long a thread do you want. I read some where if you don't finish in the top 3 or win championships like formula Renualt or F3 in your first or second season you automatically end your career chances as a potential F1 driver which make sense. Of course there are touring cars and others that will consider a successful but less ranked driver which is obvious really, unless you just buy a seat with a lesser team. Apparently there are far better women racers in this country alone than Danica Patrick based on results of championships that are at least semi relevant to F1. I only mentioned her in a previous post because men who like pretty women racing like her, yet don't take the stats into consideration. There was a online pole regarding women racing. One women I have raced was mentioned as better than Danica Patrick. My first season in a new car, first race, I came 9th or 10th, this young lady finished 6th. She had won championships in the past and had driven a couple F1 cars. Does this mean at Club Level the 5 faster guys should be F1 drivers? Not a chance. There are several steps before proving competent and so many truly talented drivers fall short at that level so why do women who can only drive at a semi decent level even get discussed? There is a hell of a difference even racing in GP2 or Formula Renualt 3.5 world series than in any British Championship or some of the American Series. How many British Drivers go to the US to race because they can't get F1 drives? I bought my first car from a guy who was in talks with Honda some years ago, he became one of many F1 Test drivers but never made it as a number 1 driver and he has raced in many series with lots of wins. F1 drivers retire into other series, so it's difficult to compare the ability of other drivers. A bit like saying someone racing at British Superbikes could automatically be a top contender in Moto GP. Obviously you'd expect a team to pick one of the top 3 in their game not those ranked 5th,10th or 25th. Of course anything is possible but that's really an assumption and the Moto GP or F1 teams would be far more capable to make a better decision than most of us. So I am not saying women can't do it at all and I recall at least one Female F1 racer many years ago? I am sure there will be a Female F1 driver one day and I welcome it but I hope they can run in the top 5 to 7 and they don't just get a drive from kicking and screaming so loud some is compelled. Bernie is character, I'm not to keen on F1 these days although I'm not sure it won't keep going down hill with out him.
"character" - ie obnoxious, loud, self-opimionated, manipulative... F1 go down hill without him ? It's going down hill WITH him ! Even when EVERYONE - drivers, teams, fans - say something is a bad idea he insists on puishing on with it... "knock-out" qualifying - quite clearly a ridiculous and very unpopular idea, but Bernie likes it so we'll keep on trying it ! As I said previously - this thread was NOT intended to be a discussion - or a monologue, thank you - about women being able to drive F1 cars. It was about how out of date and out of touch with reality President Bernie is...
Women compete with great success in football, athletics, cricket, tennis, swimming, rowing, skating, and many other sports, but men and women compete in separate categories. If women had to participate directly alongside men, few women would be winners and hence few women would be able to maintain a professional career. On the other hand there are a few types of sports (e.g. horse riding, sailing boats) where women can and do compete on an equal footing with men in the same event. It seems to me that the interesting question is: In motorsports should there be separate men's and women's events, or should women have no option but to compete directly with men (as now)? Which would be the fairer option? And thus which option would be less fair?
This is exactly the point really. It's genetics, not sexism or misogyny. Saying there will never be a woman heavyweight boxing champion isn't sexism, it's fact. The demands of an F1 car are extremely physical and while they remain that way, Bernie is correct. If the characteristics of an F1 car change to a point where the physical aspect is less important, then you never know. Females have found success in less physical forms of motorsport.
its a sport that requires stamina, fitness and no reversing. strength doesn't come in to it, no reason why they cant compete together.
