Strange isn't it, I spent ages some years ago learning to brake as late as I'd dare and then turning the bike hard and it certainly seemed to help at the time, but you look at the onboard footage from the top guys and they're only ever upright for the longer straights and then not for long. This means that at the top level those guys are turning early and doing much of their braking whilst leaned over. Watch some onboard (say Silverstone as you live at the circuit!) of the MotoGP guys and count how many seconds they're upright for in a lap, very few indeed!
Going back to body position, surely a lot depends on the bike and how you fit it. Some are much roomier than others. Hanging off my Streetfighter is the easiest thing in the world. The seat feels very roomy, the bars are nice and low and the pegs are in the right place (for me) so that with only a very slight amount of tension in the thighs I'm hovering off the seat and free to move without feeling that I'm really gripping the bike anywhere. I am. I'm gripping with the knees but because the ergonomics suit me it doesn't feel like I'm trying and importantly, its not fatiguing. It worth practising hard acceleration and hard braking in a straight line to see how much you are using your knees. Ideally you should be able to do both with only the lightest touch on the bars and without digging your feet into the pegs and your knees taking the forces. The Superduke takes more conscious effort. The riding position is more relaxed, the seat feels closer to the bars and it feels like I'm having to take more weight in my legs to slide across the seat. The more natural and effortless it is to assume the hanging off position the smoother it is and you're more able to concentrate on line and timing. Don't know whether its right but I move to the hanging off position on the brakes, or quite late. If you're not comfortable in getting over and you're doing it early perhaps to avoid upsetting the steering, I think you're more likely to turn too early.
I dunno, all the fast guys seem to say get your lower body off before you hit the brakes, definitely gives me less work to do all at once this way. Agree regards egros.
How do you do that at 140+ down the back straight though? Would mean you move to the side and up just before hitting the brakes? Sounds rather unsettling....
This is a personal opinion but don't we as riders get a bit muddled up with what looks right as to what works. I say this because we would all like to look like Rossi, MM or Shaky come to that but its there day job they live and breath it same as im an engineer and like to think I know what im doing but don't ask me how to mend a heart. Suppose what im saying is you see an article in MCN say about a Triumph Tiger 800 I use that because that's my road bike and Neaves is doing the write up and there is a picture of him with everything scrapping in the floor looking as cool an ice. Now ask me to get any where near that on my track bike let alone my Tiger aint going to happen. Go with what works and is comfortable but above all enjoy it. Mark.
Easily. It's routine. Move bum Lift body above screen Brake and move upper body Turn Apex Using right Move bum
I'm old school. I stay in line and theres no chicken strips on my tyres. I do occasionally have a go at the knee down technique but find I rotate my knee into the side panel more than stick it out. I also notice the arm opposite to the lean side is dead straight and not bent at elbow. I think this is a likely cause as I watch racers and their elbows are always bent. Doesnt help that the 1198 is a bit of a stretch to the bars. Oddly enough the helibars helped here, but I took them off as I did not warm to them. Which reminds me, theyre for sale. Lol. 916 is easier to knee down as that falls on its side beautifully. The 11 always needs a good bit of effort to turn. However it loves a really fast sweeper. Thats not to say I havent been successful at it. I have. But its preparation, on a track thats relatively easy. Not so on the roads as you cannot be certain whats round the next corner. Theres loads good advice on this thread and I'll read thru it tonight. 1299S pick up is nxt Tuesday and already I can feel a sickie coming on. Cough...sneeze
No chicken strips means no margin for error and less contact patch. Not saying that's bad tho. I have loads on mine, barely lean the thing
I think it depends on the bike and the body. Not everything works for everybody (not even all the MotoGP boys ride exactly alike). That is why one to one training is better than any book, YouTube video, or forum discussion. I ride right up behind the tank, but I'm a relatively small 5'9". My body is in line with the bike/turn, and I'm putting no pressure on the bars. My knee will go down before the pegs, but I tend not to stick it out much anyway. So on the tank works for me on my bike, but that doesn't mean it will work for everyone. Similarly, sitting back may work for you, but not for everyone. What is important is being relaxed and comfortable... They will be turning in as late as they possibly can. There is an optimum curve (maximum radius), and turning in any earlier does not help, it will narrow the actual corner and create more of a curve through the apex (slower line). They will be trail braking into the corner, but they won't want to compromise the line. The short time upright down the straights is because they hit 330kph Not only that, but you can hold your upper body with your core using the inside of your thigh on the back of the tank, rather than put pressure through the bars.
When I was doing solo track riding, because I am short, I used to flatten myself on the tank which I felt was keeping the weight forward. At the same time I would lift the foot that would be on the inside of the corner so the ball of the foot was on the footpeg; doing that, it was easier to 'knee out'. On larger capacity bikes I would slide off the seat a bit to help in pulling it down into the corner. Chucking it into a corner was always easy because I subconciously pushed the inside clip-on away from me. If I felt I was drifting out, a small pressure on the rear brake would help me correct it, but with the Ducati and the set-up on it, I found it very easy to sling it into the corner, so easily in fact, I would have to pick it up a bit. Interestingly, having lost so much weight since I first got the Ducati, I found that I had to lay on the tank even more - but nothing like years ago with my 1000RX when I would have to clamber all over the tank and stamp on it to get it round a bend.
Dont know if this has already been mentioned but one thing that very rarely gets advised and is super helpful is to remember to move your outside foot forward so the heel is against the peg. This lets your hips open up and puts your whole upper body in a better position for knees down, leaning your head off center and all that stuff. If you look at peoples body position many will have their arse hanging off to one side but then twist at the waist so their head is still on top of the bike on the center line. Moving the outside foot forward helps to prevent this twist.
One interesting thing with the Panigale is that it's very difficult to support yourself with your knees clamping the tank in heavy breaking like on most jap bikes. On the R6 I reckon I can take a third off the breaking distance just by clamping my knees to keep my body weight backwards. It gets confusing when you then talk about keeping your weight off the side of the bike after the last corner for stability before braking for the next corner Fast riders are joining most of corners together so this makes sense but if you are not a race ninja then many people have a straight and a braking zone before each corner because they are not carrying so much speed and it's not always practical to stay hanging off.
I'm 4mm off edge of tyres. Previous TD I grabbed an instructor for a session and he told me to lean off more and lean the bike less. I was right on edge of tyres and he said I had nowhere to go if need to lean more. So this should be about right? Maybe 1mm more?
You've got lean left in an emergency but the point he is making is that you are probably using it unnecessarily. Just leaning your head to the inside will get you around the corner with less lean, you can practice this on the road without dying or getting arrested for ninja stunts
