Battery boosters

Discussion in 'Technical Help' started by PP1098, Mar 8, 2013.

  1. Hi all

    Can any of the above fry any of the electric parts of the bike that millisec during which it helps the bike's dead battery to fire up?
    If indeed safe how many ampers should it be? Panigale is 12V and 6.5A circuit but I find 450A and a heavy duty 1600A car battery boosters in the market only.

    Charger is available but difficult due to building and storage conditions of the bike.

    Thanks as always
    phil
     
  2. In a word, yes. Any modern bike (or car) equipped with electronics is at serious risk of damage. For jump starting, I believe it's safe to use Power Packs which contain a slave battery such as the following | Power Pack Halfords For safe charging with battery remaining connected to bike, you should not use a conventional trickle charger but need a charger/conditioner made for the purpose such as an Optimate or a CTEK (which I use) both which come with a split connector allowing a permanent connection to batteries that are a pain the arse to get at. | CTEK - Demon Tweeks hope this helps
     
    #2 Nigelo, Mar 8, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2013
  3. Thank you -yes it helps. Jump starting the bike battery is not the best thing and not sure yet if the recommended slave battery can be used. Chargers and conditioners are best but not an option for me for security purposes.
    P.
     
  4. The power packs such as the halfords ones are really just a battery with cables and croc clips attached. It's really no different than taking a car battery and using jump leads. There's no problem with using a car battery to jump start the bike. You could use a massive one like the type used to start my 4.5 litre 3 cylinder diesel forklift or something smaller with no difference in the potential risk. A battery is just a storage device. It's up to the bike to decide how much current it pulls. The numbers on an automotive battery are a measure of how many amps it can deliver in a burst (cold cranking amps) or the total capacity of amps that it could deliver in one hour (amp hour).

    Any vehicle fitted with a charging system will generate enough amps to run the electrics of the vehicle and charge the battery too. This is where you need to be careful. If you decide to jump your bike off a car then there's no problem as long as the car engine is not running as the output from the cars charging system will possibly overload the bikes electrics as they are not designed to handle the load generated.
     
    #4 Gilps, Mar 11, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2013
    • Like Like x 3
  5. Many thanks. Thats the explanation I was looking for. So if I use one of these power packs (either with max output of 6A or even 450A) theres no way I ll fry the bike's electrics. The bike will draw enough current/ amps to start up not more not less. I guess if max output by power pack is 6A and bike's 9.5A (new pani) it may not start.
    Thanks again.
    P
     
    #5 PP1098, Mar 11, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2013
  6. The issue, or potential issue, is not the current draw on the battery because as Gilps says the circuit will only draw what it needs, but its the sparks that occur when you hook the booster or jump leads up. These aren't 12v. They are much higher and it's these that are a risk to the newer bikes running multiple ECU and CANBUS thru spiking the circuits. Also there's a sleep time on the Pani ECU's of 90 seconds after key off. You must not do anything with the electrics during this time.
    The battery terminals on the Pani are quite small and difficult to reach with decent clips, so if this route is your only option, I'd look at putting in a heavy duty hook up that you can connect to.
    Of the two, rather than a booster pack, I'd connect to a second battery so that the bike can be connected first, then the battery to the other end of the leads. Any sparks would be away from the bike and suppressed by the leads and bikes battery.....
    It's a farly slim but real chance scenario but should it happen you'll brick an ECU or two and that won't be a cheap mend......
     
  7. The starter draws about 70A
     
  8. Most battery packs nowadays are switched, so you connect up then turn on and start. So there should be no sparks or surges.
     
  9. Thanks all. The power pack I found here is 12v so theoretically its leads should withstand that. As for the pani the battery ends up in a fuse under the seat as per manual so I wont be fitting the clamps directly on the battery. I will convert the cables' one end to that same fuse and just plug it in. As for the 90sec I didnt know that neither the possibility of sparks. It could be a risk but the booster will be away from the bike..well 2-3 feet..
     
    #9 PP1098, Mar 12, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2013
  10. The connection under the seat is for charging only. There's no way it would carry the current to start the bike. Don't connect a booster to that.
    The spark issue comes about from when you clip the earth connection to the battery. The length of the leads doesn't have a bearing on it. If you can get a switched one then that's best. Because booster pack only have connections to the battery, the sparks will happen there. If you use jumper leads on a second battery, if you connect the bike up first, then connect to the slave battery, then the sparks happen there..
     
  11. Thanks Nelly, some good stuff there.

    Nelly is right about the sparks too. My forklift at work was a pig to start in cold weather due to the size of each pot and its very high compression. We would regularly put the battery on charge overnight to ensure it had a full charge and even then it would still need a jump start from my Sprinter the next day to fire it up. One time when attaching jump leads at the forklift end I managed to short out the positive post to the bodywork with the croc clip. The battery had been on charge overnight so there was plenty of gas around. It exploded in my face! I washed my face immediately so no problems there but all my clothes went in the bin with holes in them.

    For that reason alone I would use a battery pack rather than a separate battery, plus the pack comes with an AC wall charger so topping it up is real easy. No need for an additional charger. Plus most of them come with a tyre inflator which I have found useful on more than one occasion, even if just for blowing the kids football up. Combine that with Nelly's idea of decent leads permanently fixed to the bike battery with enough length so that the connection from lead to croc clip is far enough away from the bike and you would probably have a decent solution. The problem comes with ensuring the bikes leads are kept secure on the bike and have no chance of shorting out when not in use.

    Another thing to bear in mind is that automotive batteries are not designed to be run low. If you are regularly having to jump start the bike then that would mean that the battery is regularly deep discharging. It won't be long before the battery is knackered.
     
  12. I have a halfords power pack. It has an on off switch. Connect to the bike then turn on the power pack.
     
  13. On the rare occasion that my battery is not up to starting the bike ( 749) I have a spare car battery sitting in the garage always charged up and I use a set of jump leads.
    I connect the -ve to the footpeg, and clamp the +ve to a long handled screwdriver which I can poke through a gap in the fairing after I have unclipped the 2 quick release fasteners and pulled it out of the way and push it onto the + battery terminal. This enables me to start the bike. Once it's running I carefully remove the screwdriver 'probe' and jobs a good un.
     
  14. ...just reading through this thread and thought I would mention the Push Fit Power Connectors that I have just ordered...
    [​IMG]

    I am going to fit one on the bike (999) mounted just inside the fairing and connected to the battery. My plan is then to have jump leads on the other connector so I can quickly connect up a larger battery for a boost start for cold starts without having a loose lead on the bike or having to connect up onto the +ve terminal each time.

    After reading these posts I think I'll add an inline isolator switch too on the jump lead side just to be on the safe side.

    I'll add some more pics when I get chance to put it together.

    Cheers,

    DD
     
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