Hi folks I have found some ex-Trioptions Maxton fork cartridges on eBay and I’m wondering how difficult they are to fit. Is it feasible to swap the cartridges in one at a time while the forks are still on the bike? One alternative is to remove the forks and send them off to Maxton for fitting but obviously that will come at an extra cost that could be used to buy other parts! I have a reasonable level of mechanical aptitude and generally work things out in the end, but I don’t want to start something I can’t finish or require specialist tools for. Does anyone have any experience with this? Thanks Steve
I called Richard at Maxton - the forks need modifying so I have to send them off. £250 plus vat for the full job so I hope I can feel the difference - the £450 for the cartridges feels like less of a bargain now but still less than buying new!
What needs adjusting? £250 sounds a lot for a cartridge swap and rebuild IME. You can get a set refreshed for £150 which includes a full strip, so whats the other £100 for?
The way it was described is that the extra £100 was to modify the forks to accept the cartridges. From a little reading about the Showa big piston forks they don’t have traditional cartridges - pretty the whole fork is the cartridge - so there’s nothing to attach the Maxton cartridges to at the bottom of the forks. Richard says they need to install a bracket at the bottom of the forks to attach the cartridges to. I have zero experience of this so can only go on what they say. The cartridges are MPR26 Gas - nothing really available on the internet about them as they aren’t on sale to the public by the looks of things.
While undeniably a lot of money, suspension improvements are probably the best thing to spend our money on. Especially the 959 front end! Riding my mates one, the lack of compliance, particularly banked over and hitting a bump nearly pitched me off. Put me off buying a Panigale for two years! Having an expert sort (not just adjust!) the sussies on my last four bikes was an investment, not a cost. Dave
I haven't seen the Maxton kit, but the Showa BPF forks are a pain to convert. The preload is at the bottom of the fork, with both damping controls in the top. I fitted K-tech into mine which move back to conventional setup. The tubes need removing from the foot to remove all the preload gubbins. Even with the right tools and a lot swearing, I still damaged one leg. £250 is a bargain against buying a new fork IMO
Thanks for the responses guys. Now I just need to get the forks out and find a shipping company that won’t destroy them! I’ll be booking it in for a service with you once it’s back together @nelly
I googled this last night, just out of interest, and found nothing at all that suggested it won’t bolt in. You’d think maxton or suppliers would mention it in their sales blurb. I guess most simply take the forks there and buy new and any install costs are then added
Unfortunately £100 is only an hour and 1/2 labour. Maybe even not that. I'm about to send my GSXR forks to Colin at 100% and it's £470 for a revalve of the standard cartridge and springs for my weight.
Yeah - I think all of the manufacturers must be the same - I think it’s down to the fact that each fork is different - it’s a specialist market so you have to enquire about your specific fork and then they will explain. As @nelly says - the K-tech cartridges are no different - it’s just because the Showa BPF are fundamentally a different design. I found this https://www.morebikes.co.uk/1350/everything-you-need-to-know-about-motorcycle-forks/ “What exactly are BPFs? Developed by Showa, Big Piston Forks (BPFs) effectively convert the whole fork leg into the cartridge, allowing the use of a much bigger main piston that incorporates both rebound and compression damping within it. This allows much more oil to flow through at lower pressures (greater volume means lower pressure, meaning that the oil travels at lower speeds). This improves low-speed damping control, such as when the forks start to compress under braking, reducing fork dive. It should also reduce oil cavitation, which causes irregular damping problems. By getting rid of some of the parts needed in a conventional cartridge fork (internal cylinder, compression piston), this reduces unsprung weight. Also, as the spring preload is now at the bottom of the fork (compression/ rebound adjusters are top-mounted), this eliminates the need for a sleeve running up to the top fork cap. Improving the damping control in this way should provide greater feel, less high-speed vibration, reduced dive, better connection to the road through the tyres, increased front-end confidence and less chance of hydraulic lock (where the level of fluid inside the unit affects the compression ratio – if the level’s too high, then the pressure may get so high as to cause lock, preventing further suspension travel).” From what I can see the high end replacements from Ohlin’s, K-Tech and Maxton approach the issue from a different angle to the BPF - compression and rebound are separated into different forks giving a greater degree of control and adjustment / potential oil flow etc as each fork only has to accommodate a single function. There might be a potential weight penalty - I will weigh the stock forks before I send them off and weigh them again on return and report back.
Resurrecting this old thread with an update. Being the king of procrastination I finally got around to sending my forks off the Maxton to get the cartridges installed - over a year later! Once I started track days last year there was no time that I could risk being without the bike while I sent the forks off so it just didn’t happen. So they sat on the shelf at Maxton until I finally coughed up what was in the end the rather pricey fee of £480 to get them serviced, new seals and fitted. I kind of feel like I have been bent over in the prison showers but it’s still a lot cheaper than if I had bought new - so the question is - will I be able to feel the £950 it’s cost me to get race internals?? According to the chap from Maxton these are the best they do and what their sponsored racers get, but I can’t shake the feeling I should have just spent the money on more trackdays......... Unfortunately given my obsession with weight - they are 100g per fork heavier than stock!
Have you actually tried them out yet? Do you feel any benefits from spending almost a grand on them?? I’ve just bought and fitted a K-tech DDS 35 pro shock to the back of my 899, after a few rides to tweak the settings in I’m pretty happy with it, but now it seems to be showing up the front end, @V4Missile came out with the exact wording “ lack of compliance “ ...if you hit a series of bumps the forks feel like they are full of treacle, not oil, they just don’t seem to react fast enough and consequently you get this feeling of constant “ chatter “ on rough surfaces traveling up your arms and if the surface is bad enough and long enough it almost gets to the stage where your vision is getting blurred. I’ve even resorted to digging out the owners manual and setting the forks to “ road comfort “ setting as they call it, haven’t tried it yet as I just did it in the garage last night, but I did notice that it took about 3 turns of rebound damping off from the existing settings, and a similar amount of comp damping. I’m 95% road riding and I just want it to ride the bumps better, I’ve got a 2020 Kawasaki Ninja 1000sx for touring duties and on the same roads it just floats over bumps that would have the Panigale bucking like a Bronco! I’m sure the more upright position with less weight on your hands helps as well. I read somewhere once that a heavier bike actually makes the suspension work better and it’s more difficult to get a good suspension feel on a light bike, but sometimes the Panigale feels like it’s got square wheels! Oh..I’m waiting for a set of BST carbon wheels for the Panigale turning up, I’ve heard that the lack of unsprung weight helps the ride quality greatly as well,..we’ll see?? Any ideas on what to do next with the forks, or am I gonna have to spring for a grand on them as well???
KTech SSK kit gives great benefit for low(ish) money. I had them fitted to my 675 by Steve Jordan. I initially asked for the race spec kit (SSRK) but follows is clipped from the email exchange which might help. “SSK kit which comes with the flow control valves. The SSK kit would be better for you as has a softer damping curve for the valving. The SSRK could feel a bit harsh and lack feedback unless your racing .....” EDIT. Just had a look at KTech and not sure they do this kit for 899? Might be worth calling them as no doubt you know they are very helpful.
Correct. I believe that they actually fit more of the SSK kit to full race bikes than the SSRK because it’s much “smoother”.
Not even fitted them yet so no idea how they will feel. From everything I have read, the stock Showa forks are actually pretty good and for road riding you should be able to get a decent result just by getting them setup properly. For british roads the sporty settings are going to feel a bit vibey - especially compared to the K-Tech DDS - I have the same rear shock and it’s buttery smooth. What’s your riding weight? The first thing to check is if you are in the right ballpark for the stock springs. If you aren’t then getting the right springs and fork oil is a much cheaper option than new cartridges. For comfortable road riding then you would use a slightly lighter spring than for track riding and it also depends on your riding style as an aggressive braking requires a stiffer spring to prevent the fork bottoming out for example. Lighter wheels do make it easier on the suspension but can actually make the chatter you are describing worse. I read the below last night: One man who knows a lot about lightweight wheels is MCN columnist and technical boss at Kawsaki’s British superbike team, Ray Stringer. As well as being in charge of putting the ZX-7RRs together, he is a former British superbike privateer champion so he knows about wheels from both sides of the job. In his opinion, however, you have to be careful going for lightweight wheels – it’s not just a matter of bolting them on and going. He said: " When the 600s used to be allowed lightweight wheels you’d see a lot of bikes suffering front end chatter. There may be suspension specialists who’d disagree with me, but in my opinion you need more controlled compression damping to make them really work. If your’e going to use them on the road you really need to avoid potholes and anything that’ll make the suspension bottom out sharply as they aren’t as durable as the standard wheels. If you ride hard, though, you’ll notice the difference, mainly it’s the flickability at high speed. If you ride on tracks a lot you notice it most. " In theory a lighter wheel should mean you need less compression and more rebound than for the stock wheels - but that assumes everything was set just right in the first place. The changes you have made should make things smoother for the road but if I were you then I would wait to get the BST’s fitted then speak to a suspension specialist about getting it all setup for your weight and usage. Life at lean also have a series of guides that i’m still trying to absorb covering all aspects of suspension. https://lifeatlean.com/?s=Teach+me+suspension+ If you really crave having matching front and rear suspension then K-tech do 2 different cartridge kits for the 899/959 - take a look at the prices - and make sure you ask for the ‘fitted’ cost as from my experience it adds a fair chunk on top. https://store.ktechsuspension.com/a...-547178&sid=lbCAV4c5OM&product_list_limit=all
Friday I take my new K-TECH rear shock on track for the 1st time, as I've not ridden a bike since September it's hard to imagine I'll actually notice a big difference.
