I'm having a problem with the new clutch pack I've ordered and desperately need help. The clutch pack ordered was from Ducabike (a racing version) for my 999 . This has 1 extra friction plate but one less driven (steel) plate. The o.e. clutch has two driven plates next to each other , one of which is supposed to be the dished one in the centre of the pack. Both packs go in with a friction first followed by a driven and so on ( until the o.e. one has the two plates above in the middle) ,ending with a driven (steel plate ) against the clutch pressure plate. Most of you guys will know this but I'm having trouble when it comes to the race set up. The measurement of the o.e. pack is down to 36.75 mm the new race one that replaces it is 38 mm the driven plates in the race one are 1.5mm with one at 2mm, I have tried all combinations possible from leaving out the 2mm ,replacing it with a 1.5mm from old pack , leaving out one of the new race frictions blah blah. All to no avail , the bike will either sit happily in neutral , stall when put in gear or not pull away fast enough when given revs , all attributed to the different possibilities of pack thickness. I have a question does a race clutch need neutral the same way a road bike does. I.E start in neutral fine, then put in gear, and hold bike back with front brake , then, race start and put in neutral whilst bike is moving before coming to a halt (otherwise you'd have to switch bike off then find neutral) Whenever you see these bikes (race) being started they then head off immediately you never see theem bang it in neutral . If that is the case then that is how this new pack works but I'm not sure if it's suppossed to be that way. What happens when race bikes are held up on the line do they put in neutral or are they burning out the clutch. Any help would be so much appreciated. Thanks Pete. Adding to that I know Ducati recommend 38mm as Stack height on o.e. clutches . I have a DP slipper clutch .
Yeah thanks Steve I know that, when I put the full race pack in it should be fine at 38mm , I have an MPL clutch slave,I'm thinking maybe this needs to be rebleed as the problem must be that the pressure plate is not being pushed far enough away from the stack to allow the plates to spin freely.
Ok I have bleed system .Still no joy . Bike moves off once gear engaged. However all is normal,when used with only two clutch springs in meaning any more is placing two much force on the pressure plate clamping plates together. i have never heard of anyone using only two clutch springs, would longer screws be the answer to let tension off springs ? therefore I can put four in,the minimum required I would have thought.
Don't know about 999 but on my 748 there is a small grub screw in the knuckle on the lever, you can make fine adjustments to the lever pull at this point. Steve. Ps don't put longer bolts in, something is wrong somewhere.
Yes I'm thinking illogicaly , because I'm stumped. The pack I've had delivered is 38mm ,I've tried as said all combinations and the way I see it is I'm 1mm out , the bike has no neutral when lever is pulled in ,I've adjusted the span on the lever to excert more pressure,with no improvement. I havent yet put old clutch back in to try and I havent tried replacing old frictions with new whilst retaining o.e. steels ,essentially same clutch just new frictions. Only way would be to remove slave and place 1mm washer between that and pushrod . Do I really want to do this ? ,only as a last resort. I bought a new pack so I want to use the new pack. Grrr
Ok I'll keep my own thread going here. (may be of use in future) used O.E. pack except for swapping frictions, less the one spare, 7 as opposed to 8 for the ducabike set. Same thing cant release pressure plate far enough to give bike neutral. Found instructions from Ducabike folded up as small as poss and hiding behind some stickers. There are four sizes of plates No 1, frictions 3mm No 2, convex 1.5mm No 3, steels 1.5mm No 4, steel 2mm. Order is friction ,convex ,friction steel ,so on until finish with the 2mm ,I'm assuming in case you want to change pack thickness by swapping for a 1.5 (not supplied). Tried that sequence no difference. So tomorrow I shall put O.E. clutch back to make sure it's nothing I've done.
I've always ran a stack height of 36mm ~ 37mm on a DP slipper and have had no problems. I put a DP slipper in my Streetfighter S yesterday with a stack height of 36.2mm
this is a conundrum that you will solve in time although it being a slipper clutch possibly adds another spanner in the works. Firstly, have you got/can you lay your hand on ALL the plates you removed that it worked ok with? (i'm guessing worn friction plates was reason for replacement) It will help to try and work out what's changed as this will give you an idea as to what the stack height was when clutch did work ok. Depending on (particularly aftermarket) clutch springs, pressure plate, drum, slave, master cylinder and even lever you can end up needing a different stack height I think you already know. Have you changed the clutch springs at the same time - aftermarket versions of these seem to cause the most trouble as they can become coilbound before clutch disengages if the wire dia is larger than standard. A trick here just to get by is to try using (say) a 1 mm washer of the appropriate o/dia under the spring cap* and a slightly longer screw if possible (I always use the longest screws (certainly longer than std) that are possible anyway just to help prevent thread-stripping). Although some will swear by the magical 38 mm total stack height, if an odd combination of the above variables is used you could have (as said) between 36.5 and 38.5 mm and clutch will still work fine. *make sure you check clutch-cover clearance if you go this route.
Thanks Chris ,agree with all you say . The problem with this pack is that the fricitons are 3mm the steels 1.5 and the final steel 2mm , Having given this some thought I think I need to lose 1-1.5mm , I might need to ditch a friction (which irks ) and add either a 2mm from my old pack or maybe the dished one from the old pack. Ideally it would be nice to drop a 1.5mm steel but that would leave two fricitons together and I guess they'd lunch themselves in no time. I have never had this problem before because I've always bought o.e. plates.
Okay, this may be no help, but here goes. Just fitted a new clutch pack to my D16. It's the same slipper clutch as fitted to a 749R, so assume similar to 999 and DP jobbie. Here's the assembly instructions from the workshop manual Insert the set of clutch plates (8) in the following order: one drive plate (E), 3 mm thick; one convex plate (F) 1.5 mm thick, set it so that the punched dot (G) is downward; six driving plates (E) alternating them with six driven plates (H), 1.5 mm thick; one drive plate (E), 3 mm thick; one driven plate (L), 2 mm thick now this is an oe pack, Realise its not the same as your clutch, (1.5 less ish), but just helps to confirm plate order..My only other thought is was your basket badly notched ? If so are the plates binding on this ? Sure you did too, but I activated the clutch with the cover off to make sure pressure plate was moving far enough away to release clutch as the push rod (which came out with the plate) appeared to be in two pieces (one very short, though seemed firmly attached) and I was paranoid about the push rod being the right length when re instated.
Is this just put a new set of friction and drive plates in OR have you fitted a new clutch assembly (hub-basket etc) at the same time ? brian.
Nothing new onlty clutch pack. No notches on basket ,nothing at all untoward other than the fact that the clutch pack is now to thick. I read the figure 38mm as a ducati std ,which is what this new pack is, and it's fitted in a std Ducati performance slipper clutch unit. However it is a "racing set with one extra friction but one less steel . Steve your set up sequence wise is exactly the same as I have done. Going to put O.E. back in now to make sure it is new plates.
I like to get less than 38mm or neutral is tricky to find. My 916 has 8 (thinner, sintered) friction plates alternating with steel plates but with only 1 steel plate at the start rather than the normal 2. I made up the overall height by using a selection of 2mm and 1.5mm plates. I don't bother with the 'dished' plates (unless it's all I've got) as I don't believe they help and could cause slippage?
The slipper clutch starts with a friction. Anyhow I have put the old plates in and the bike works fine . I have lightly sanded new plates because glue was all around the edges. And using a combination of old steels and new I have built up the pack to +/- .5mm of old one , having to leave out one new friction, so essentially I've a new clutch. Which begs the question why is this pack supplied with 8 friction plates for a total thickness of 38mm. When looking down on my clutch if I use this 38mm pack ,you can see it has pushed the pressure plate further away from the clutch basket, so it's never going to work , the only way would be if the steel plates supplied had some 1mm ones supplied Steve I would like to know how yours works with the full 8 frictions , something from your clutch to mine must be different.
Doing the maths from the plate info my stack height comes out at 36.5mm, which it looks like would work for you as well. Have to admit I didn't actually measure the height at the end as was told the height would be fine out of the box. I checked the part no on the box and it only comes up for D16 and 749R, so clearly the 999 must be different, don't understand why that would be.
DUCATI DRY CLUTCH PLATE KIT - RACE | eBay This is what I've had delivered Steve. This adds up to 38mm therefore this kit must be wrong? ?
Is it me, or does anyone else remember seeing a little extension for the clutch push rod. It fitted inside the bigger slave cylinder to make sure the clutch engages/disengages correctly. I'm going to have a look now see if i can find a picture. Not even sure if it'd be the solution, but as i'm sure you're aware, your bike shouldn't be stalling or moving with the clutch in.
