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The Trackday Conundrum

Discussion in 'Trackdays & Rider Skills' started by bradders, Jun 25, 2020.

  1. Had that yesterday by a guy on a Build Base Suzuki. How was seriously rapid but didn't cut me up or dive bomb me once.
     
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  2. Think you guys may be missing the point. On a TD, ‘normally’ they say 6ft bubble and no overtaking into a corner. Pros are so quick and normally clean it’s fine: but shouldn’t be doing it. Because when it gets messy....
     
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  3. I get what you are saying, as it was in the advanced group I was half expecting stuff like that.
    However if I was in the novice or inter group and the same thing happened I would be most unhappy, and would have had no compunction about discussing the matter face to face with the guy, as I have in the past.
    The problem is riders who are blatantly in the wrong group (too fast or too slow). And who are not moved by the TDO.
    You can see the problem with posts on FB asking for trackdays at certain circuits in any group.
    Wonder if they are racers looking for track time.....
     
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  4. Track days are becoming a major stress for me now.

    I don't go 10/10s - recalibrating to the speed on track and self preservation ensure that - so although not error free, I try very hard not to make a mistake that would result in any danger to me or my fellow riders. On an empty track, I would make happy, (but slow) progress.

    No, the anxiety I have is other riders - the majority of whom are safe, but it's not a big enough majority unfortunately. Incorrect groupings, too much adrenalin and the attitude of having a track day bike (nothing wrong with that), therefore I don't care if I crash, scare the crap out of me. I often ride to the track and want to ride home in one piece.

    Better safety briefings, emphasising the dos and donts, observation by instructors empowered to deal harshly with dangerous riding and smaller groups are the best way to improve safety. I have participated in transponder events and guess what? Useless: "the software didn't work" or the groupings are not posted / noticed until 2/3 of the day is over. The technology is good, the execution is poor.

    The irony of it is that a moderate club racer would probably be at the top of the fast group. So, in my opinion, and has previously been said, track days are for learning and practice / development: if you want to go flat out, then go racing. Otherwise, exercise a bit of caution and respect for those slower and less competent. (Hesitation can be dangerous, but I am happy to hold back rather than risk an overtake that might be too close, or put me in the wrong place/wrong speed.)

    But this message only reaches those that want to hear it.
     
  5. I always thought focused events did the best safety briefing.
     
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  6. I've just spent three days on track at Donington with Focused.

    We were actively policing the groups all day and circulating in a lot of sessions to keep an eye on things (i think this really helps personally).

    We did have to have a word with a couple of riders over the three days naturally, but they all took what we said on board.

    A lot of this in my opinion is having a good team/staff (that are willing to put the effort in). Teamwork makes the dreamwork and all that.
     
    #46 Advikaz, Jun 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
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  7. I have managed luckily enough to do couple TD at Slovakia-ring this year.

    Each session was timed with Transponders and produced at race control and on MYLAPS application.
    Riders were then re-shuffled to the correct groups accordingly A.B. C sometimes D 15-20min session.
    From the app you can see past times from the TD'S so give you a better understanding straight away of what group you should be in.

    Some promotions even had 6 lap race format if you choose or there was enough to run in the group for the race.

    I think its a good idea to have Transponders as the Times don't lie and shows your ability,
    even if your on a ego trip you be found out.

    I found it quite good for myself as riding around with guys similar speeds made it into a little race;)
    format.

    But MOST of All made me realise my ability what group I should be, and where to improve my times and not really endangering anyone by being to quick or to slow for the group.
     
  8. Safety briefings are important but as @cl955 said, some people just don't really listen let alone take it seriously, particularly if they're a nutter / out to prove something to their mates. It's in one ear and out the other. I wonder if briefings need a bit of a review, maybe once in a while include a non-specific example of when it does go badly wrong, a bit like speed awareness courses (not been on one but I think that's what they do, shock tactic photo kind of thing).

    The problem is the old Top Gun 'your ego is writing cheques your body can't cash' quote. Some people seem to be hard wired to disregard the safety of others. I don't think it's to do with being a racer, it's all about respect for other riders and adopting the right mental attitude on the day. Many years ago I was skittled off my 748 tipping in to Graham Hill by someone who was essentially just there to have a laugh with his mates. There's nothing funny about causing an accident. Luckily I walked away.

    For me Euro days are generally better than UK these days, better standard of riding in general and probably a bit more camaraderie. Somehow that needs to be happening here but it's bloody hard for the organisers to police and adrenalin sports will always attract their percentage of nutters. A lot of people think anyone who rides a fast bike is crazy - arguably there's some truth in that, it has its risks and we accept that. But we mitigate it with our attitude and respect. That could be much better emphasised at briefings.

    Be safe.
     
  9. Agree with @Pavsta.

    3 days at Aragon in May 2019 - 35 per group, with transponders (only moved people on day 2). Felt pretty safe, the track has lots of run off and escape routes (used a few times by people). One collision in my group on Day 3 which appeared to be a bad mistake by one rider that took out another that was minding his own business and caused a lot of bike damage to both machines, I think both were ok physically.

    Was interesting that my friend and I were the only riders with pure road tyres - the sun was our tyre warmers, and we had a great time.
     
  10. Nearly every briefing I go to you can hear someone chatting with his mates in the background. You will never combat stupid.
     
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  11. Probably duscussing Healeys Class 1 motorcycle rider status..
     
  12. I'll open a can of worms probably.
    I ride on Farside trackdays, what are open pit lane with novices through racers on the track at the same time. They have ONLY ONE track day rule "its your responsibility to look after the person in front". it doesn't matter when you come up on someone whether they know what they're doing and follow a racing line, or someone that rides erratically (some people just don't ever seem to get 'the racing line' or what a braking marker is).
    I've done 40+ days riding with Farside and i don't think I've ever heard of a bike on bike incident. In a typical 3 days event on the track often whole days with no red flag.
    If this rule was applied at track days - that in the event of any incident the person passing from the back is responsible for any repairs in the event of an accident - the person overtaking then has to treat everyone like they're going to be eractic or make a mistake - and that would be a great deal safer.
     
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  13. always ride like everyone is trying to kill you. always expect the unexpected. always expect someone to do something utterly stupid.

    basically covers it :laughing:
     
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  14. There is a difference between being responsible for the person in front and responsible for costs of a coming together.

    And also trying to get the money bout of them.
     
  15. And the price doubles or triples.
    I was surprised Andy said he liked open pit. In U.K., you have to to fast and:eek:r nuts to be out there as they will all be racers testing. IME.
     
  16. Never happen.
     
  17. Just got back today from another UK track day early. Fast Group sighting session was red flagged. Mine was chequer flag, next was red due to oil and final one was a helicopter job after someone dropped his contents and the following rider took the hit. Track then had so much cement on it I packed up and went home having done four laps.
    Hoping now that a more sensible crowd will be at Portimao in July.
     
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  18. Just all seems to be bad news since the resumption of trackdays - crashing badly on a sighting lap? Sounds terrible Paul - what a waste of time for everyone - hope the injured rider(s) are ok.
     
  19. The Fast group guy was in my garage, fell off session one.
    Just heard of a Fast Group mate who could only get a place in Novice for this week.
    No more UK days for me this year.
     
  20. Don't blame you.
    Many years ago, I was put in the Fast Group for the morning because of lack of space. I was (and still am) and intermediate rider. It was pretty scary and worse for the quick riders having to avoid a mobile chicane. On reflection, I should have said "No". Luckily, I got into the inters for the afternoon (kept the sticker for a while though ;))
     
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