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Legal Help Please.

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by comfysofa, Aug 6, 2020.

  1. I missed this thread.

    If you used an insured service then make a claim on it. If you didn't, then make a claim in the County Court* for breach of contract and/or conversion and/or breach of bailment, claiming the price of the goods that were lost.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailment#Liability

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_(law)

    I haven't checked the Wikipedia pages to make sure they are accurate and they probably cover other jurisdictions as well as England and Wales, but they may be helpful as a guide to what those terms mean.

    This is the form/webpage you will need to start your claim: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-n1-claim-form-cpr-part-7


    * People often talk of the "Small Claims Court". There is no such court - what happens is that the claimant issues a claim in the County Court Business Centre (which is sort of like a clearing house), then the defendant files a defence and, sometimes, a counterclaim. Most claims/counterclaims with a value of less than £10k then get allocated to the Small Claims Track, which is less formal than the other two County Court tracks (Fast and Multi). Importantly, it is intended to be used by litigants in person so the rules of procedure and evidence are greatly relaxed and if one of the parties uses a lawyer the default rule is that they won't recover their fees in any costs award, though there are exceptions.
     
    #21 Zhed46, Aug 7, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
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  2. Thank you sir. (I might need a bit of help with that if it goes that far) Little bit of an update....weve been away all week but, as it transpires, my daughters mate came on holiday with us....her dad is a parcel force manager....! so shes texted him (and he knows all the delivery/collection drivers) so says if its in the system (or in our area) which it should be - he'll find it...

    Now im back ill start the claim off...apparently theres a number at the bottom of the receipt (they dont tell you about) which you need to kick off the claim...
     
  3. What? Parcel Force/Post Office are not terribly helpful? Shock!

    Where I sit at my desk, I have a view of the whole road. Today. a typical Saturday, there is a steady stream of deliveries from couriers. Mostly Amazon, I suspect. Parcel Farce? Don't do Saturdays as they like to stay in bed. The vast fleet of PO vans? All safely locked up at the local non-delivery centre.

    Nobody of any influence says. "WTF is going on here? The PO and ParcelForce are being trampled by the private sector!"
     
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  4. So, as per @Zhed46 's advice i used the government site to see if i could get anything out of them (ParcelForce). They didnt reply in time so ive now been given the opportunity to move to a ccj....which ive done....not sure what happens next...if anyone can advise.....
     
  5. Have you issued a part 7 claim using form N1?
     
  6. I think the biggest mistake you made was using Parcel Farce to send your kit. The only company whose tracking system does not actually track at all until the items are delivered ... or not in this case. They are royally fu**ing useless.
     
  7. Not sure (i have no idea what that is) i filled out the form (as per the link you sent) paid 107 quid (or whatever it was) - they (Parcelforce) had to answer within an alotted amount of time...they didnt (i checked back today) then there was literally a button which said "issue CCJ" which i clicked on and then it went through...sorry to sound so thick i have no experience with any of this stuff...
     
  8. It sounds as if you used Money Claim Online to issue a claim. Tbh, the nitty gritty of the practicalities of issuing is “litigation” and barristers are prohibited from conducting such work (though we can get authorisation to do it by doing a course), so having never used it myself I can’t say for sure.

    In procedural terms it sounds like you’ve issued the claim but ParcelForce have failed to file a Defence at court (perhaps they left it with a neighbour of the courthouse or just dumped it on the doorstep?) and by clicking “Issue CCJ” you have filed for judgment in default.

    The court should now send an order recording your judgement, after which you can enforce it by sending the bailiffs in to recover your £970 plus court fee. Technically as the case never got allocated to the Small Claims Track, I think you should also be entitled to your time costs which you can claim at £19 per hour, though I’d need to check that.
     
  9. Yeah - im guessing they were given an allotted time to reply but didnt. Additionally, if they try to get out of it. The lady at the local post office has agreed to sign a letter confirming that the forks actually came back to their post office and then got taken again. That would confirm (i would say) the fact that they didnt get scanned and did go back into their system (ie incompetance)

    I did supply a complete timeline when i made the initial application....so anyone could read through and it would prove that even if i tried i couldnt have gotten them back before they were taken again...
     
  10. Just an update on this one. Just had through the post a "judgement for claimant" against Parcelforce saying essentially youve not replied to the claim you must pay the following amount....

    Now without getting my hopes up im assuming theyll just ignore this...is that the case or no. As when i initially kicked it off they had the chance to reply but didnt. Because they didnt is it a case of "you didnt reply, now you have to pay..."

    Or is it a case of "weve told them but they can still tell me to fuck off..."?

    Anyone?
     
  11. Awesome news.

    You are correct. It is a case of ""you didnt reply, now you have to pay..."

    A defendant who fails to file a defence within 14 days of being served with the claim (28 days if they file an Acknowledgement of Service) and ends up with a judgement in default against them, as is the case here, can apply for it to be set aside. The are two bases for such applications. Under CPR r.13.2 if they were not served with the Claim at their proper address for service or in the proper manner it will be set aside "as of right" or, they can apply under r.13,3 where if they were correctly served but they have a good reason for not responding in time, they apply promptly and have an arguable defence, then the judge has a discretion (which is not arbitrary, but informed by case law) to set it aside and give the defendant leave to defend.

    My guess its that as it is for such a small sum PF will either ignore the judgement (most likely be lost in their system) and you may need to proceed to enforcement or they'll pay up. The former is quite good fun - I know a lady who got judgement against British Gas for IIRC, £85, and sent the bailiffs into their head office.

    Does that help?
     
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  12. Wow - thats brilliant.! see what happens next....how do i send the bailifs in...!!!!
     
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  13. Good news! I've got issues with non delivery of a parcel to - it was hardly any money but that's not the point. I've followed the Citizens Advice bureau advice.

    Lets hope it works out for you! :)
     
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  14. Just reading - when i raised the initial forms i had no way of finding out who was at fault (big faceless organization) so i just raised it against Parcelforce Ltd but, i did put the 3 peoples first names in there also that essentially told me to take a walk. It was, hard enough just getting through to talk to someone let alone find out who would look after something like this....any time you ask to get put through to complaints you literally hit the answerphone saying email us....im hoping thats good enough...as i say ive got no experience of this atall....
     
  15. Tbh when advising on or drafting claims against large corporations one of the most nerve racking aspects of it can be working out exactly which one of their many entities is the correct defendant. You may find they make an application to set aside on the basis that the contract wasn't with Parcelforce Ltd, but was instead with Parcelforce (UK) Services Ltd or Royal Mail Ltd something similar, but I doubt it because it is for such a small amount of money. I just had a quick look on Companies House and there appears to be only one company with the name "Parcelforce" in it but I am not sure what their relationship is with Royal Mail.

    Did you serve the claim on their registered office or somewhere else?
     
  16. Definately on the registered office (took a while to find them)!
     
  17. So, bit of an update....no closure yet but i called Parcel force today (now ive got the finalized CCJ) effectively putting me squarely on the winning team. I contacted the .gov site and they effectively said to me (as Zhed has said) "you can send in the bailiffs.." - i thought id call them and give them a final option as i now have the number to send them in (supplied by the .gov site) - spoke to a lady on the phone (once i explained what i was going to do i think the urgency in her voice changed...) Ive just got off the phone to the local Parceforce manager again who was genuninely worried ( i think ) that if bailiffs turn up at Parcelforce`s head office and say "were here because of the Bristol office" wouldnt go down too well....ive just sent off the scanned CCJ to him which is getting forwarded to their "legal team" - he did say "ah, yes theres process to go through..." to which i explained "you can go through all the process you want to....if i dont see something soon theyre going in" Ive explained in my email that ill wait for them to nominate a date for me to receive my money by cheque or electronically and if its not received on that date i wont call back to chase it up. Ill just send`em in.

    I have to say it felt positively refreshing to have a large corporation on the back foot.
     
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  18. Had a call yesterday from "The managers office...." - a nice lady called me to say that it will be dealt with on monday...this short conversation ensued....

    "I notice youve claimed twice for the goods.....?"
    "Yes, i refunded the buyer so i claimed for that and i claimed for the forks themselves as they are missing and i claimed for the £165.00 carriage i paid also."
    "Well sir it doesnt work that way, you cant claim twice. We only refund for the cost of the goods that are lost.!"
    "Good point. Well, if you'd have a. upheld my claim that wouldnt have happened. If you'd have replied to the initial ccj which gave you a chance to contest that, and, you had 2 chances to do that but you didnt. And, on top of that, if you'd have had call centre staff that actually gave a damn about their customers in the first place we wouldnt be having this conversation."
    "Yes, ok sir......we will contact you on monday...."

    (Cant remember the exact wording but thats the way it went...)

    Lets see what happens next...

    Having said all of the above one of the optiions that i had in the initial ccj was "compensation for time spent etc etc" so i probably should have put second payment in there..." not sure but its done now....
     
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  19. Finally got a cheque today with a sorry note....generic, from "the compaints department". Got there in the end. So @Zhed46 thank you very much for the advice and help....took a few phone calls for the final push as it were but now i know what to do.
     
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  20. Awesome news.

    My invoice for £987.72 is in the post
     
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