A mate of mine was thinking of getting a 996 engined bike until I told him about the flaking plating cam follower syndrome. How common is the problem? What's the odds and can it occur on low milage motors or after say 30,000 in general? To my knowledge the testastretta motors do not suffer this, does that include the 749 series? Cheers, Keith.
I saw the title of this thread and thought it was about some 1970's AC/DC fans, who'd smoked a bit too much weed :biggrin:
Hi Keith Its a bit of a lotterey some do some don't Good service history and warm up practices help keep it at bay If you do have worn rockers a company called newman cams do a refacing service that is far better than new rockers from ducati and cheaper Regards Steve
I never had 916-series bike but I was seriously considering it at some point and did quite a bit of research. As Steve said - it looks like it's a lottery and from what I read the milage has a little to do with it. I think, one of the easiest methods to check if there is an issue is checking the oil. I'm sure that someone a bit more competent will soon chip in :smile:
I had a 2002 748 which was supposed to be one of the worst for it (something to do with change of suppliers etc) but I never had any problems at all. I did change the oil every 2500 miles though and I was super strict about letting the bike warm up for around 2-3 mins before even touching the throttle. It seems that it can be made worse by bikes that are rarely used as the rockers dry out, then when the bike is started it takes around 90 seconds to get a good oil supply too them, so a high mileage bike can sometimes be a better bet. Unfortunately no-one can categorically say what causes it; I wouldn't let him be put off by it, if the bike has had a very recent FULL service they should have been checked (as the valve clearances should have been done) and so if it's a decent workshop they will have spotted even the beginnings of the issue as it's not like they go overnight! AFAIK none of the Testastretta engines including the 749 suffer from this.
Its a lottery and there isn't a right answer. Choose a bike with a good service history preferably from a Ducati specialist. My 1999 748 had 5 replaced when i had the first big service after i bought the bike. Cam followers
Keith et all, the problems manifested themselves most in bikes built (not necessarily first registered) in 1999-2000 and was due to a change of component suppliers by the factory, although they won't admit it I suspect Ducati could tell us exactly which bikes were fitted with the substandard components. Ducati did however admit to problems with their suppliers 10 years ago or so and that they had changed them. This means that the bikes that had the greatest incidence of rocker failure tended to be late MY99-MY01 bikes. The production period coincided with the 996 production so they have shown a greater incidence of failure. It did not affect the 916 and 748s built prior to 99 so much and the 748s built from 2001 (MY02 ones for example) were fitted with the better spec rockers and actually have the lowest incidence of failure. However the issue can affect all bikes if they are not run with the correct oils (Ducati OEM spec Shell or Motul are the reliable ones IIRC), the oils are not changed at sensible intervals, the rockers are run at incorrect clearances or the engine is revved hard from start up routinely. Like Phil I have had no issues with my 748, a MY02 748s first registered April 2002 but built in summer 2001. It has just passed 33k miles and at the last inspection around 3k miles ago they were A1. I have heard of 2 people that have had 7 of them need replacing, both were 2001 registered MY00s built in 2000. I have heard of many bikes where 1 or two rockers have needed replacement but I have also heard of just as many where none had failed including 2 that had clocked up 60k miles. I don't believe its a lottery on any of the bikes if the servicing and use recommendations have been followed. You can see why the service history by a noted Ducati service agent are so valuable. A few years ago on Ducatisti we did a survey of the problem and out of 170 or so reports it was obvious that the issue has been blown out of proportion but does exist on a few bikes, the incidence of failure was lowest on 916s and highest on 996s. I suspect that as many of the failures were down to poor set up, worn or inappropriate clearances as anything else.
I had a 2003 ST4s that needed one opening rocker replaced at 6,000 miles (horizontal RH exh). When I sold the bike with near 50,000 miles on it no other rockers had needed replacing. I don't see it as a big issue as long as the bike is serviced properly and the rockers are regularly checked.
I have a monster 900 that needed a rocker when I bought it. Go figure I will find out soon if 996 needs any...
My 916 had 9 rockers flake, all openers. I have now had them rebuilt by Newman cams and so am not expecting any more problems. I wouldn't let it put me off buying a Desmoquattro, I'd just budget for replacing all the openers with Newman replacements which would only cost around the same as 2 new Ducati rockers. AFAIK the closers rarely flake.
my 748sps has full ducati service history and has had one replaced at the 12k service. its a 99 bike but may well have been made late 98.
ive escaped this so far..my sex bitch is an MY95 so i think it does bare out the fact that its the later bikes, particularly the 996 and 748 that are the worst affected. as dukedesmo said, if i was iin the market to purchase a tasty 916 i'd budget for getting them all replaced..if i had the cash at the time of purchase, i would get them all done simply for peace of mind..
Thanks for all the replies, interesting info. Ken is looking at 999 or 749 now but could be tempted by a ST. Cheers, Keith.
I changed the oil in my ST2 today, and found chrome in the oil, making me suspect it's the rockers. Is that how you found out? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? Thanks
No, I found it when checking the valve clearances. I'd removed the cams to check the rocker surfaces. Flaking rockers are not common on the 2v engines unless maybe they have been run with over tight clearances, or more likely, excessive clearances hammering the rocker surfaces. The openers are easily checked by removing them but you will need to remove the cams to inspect the closers (much easier on a 4v engine).
Not true. We’ve had the same « legend » going on in France for a decade or so, until a guy posted this video, back in 2012. The first text says it’s a horizontal cylinder from a 748. The last text says engine was cold and hadn’t been started for 3 months. It also says oil started sprinkling around the rockers after 5 seconds, but you probably new that already. So definitely nowhere near 90. Since I saw that video a couple years ago, I sleep way better at night.
Yes, not true at all. The bike in question had just been rebuilt so it's not surprising that it took some time for the oil to reach the rockers. From personal experience, on an engine that has been run, even after sitting for a few weeks the oil feed to the camshafts starts almost as soon as the engine turns over.
But what is true is that, as Derek says, you really need to pull the cams to check them properly, so it's a full belts-off fandango.
