General Question/observation On Lithium Batteries

My understanding is that there are no specific differences on the V4 Wiring specific to Lithium battery's, the big change is that most bikes that work well with Lithium batterys have digital/Mosfet regulator/Rectifiers. The Lithium battery's HATE big over charge spikes which you tend to get on older charging systems, so for example on my 848 Evo I was advised by an auto electrician not to touch lithium unless I was going to upgrade the Reg/Rec. All the Panigale's from 899/1199 onwards have had newer digital reg/recs and so are much more suitable.

This isn't gospel, so await other opinions but this is what I've gathered from the many threads on here around these batterys.

 

What Phil said about the regulator/rectifier. The reason for a LiFe specific charger is down to battery maintenance. Unlike a lead acid chemistry you don’t under any circumstances have a discharge cycle. LiFe chemistry isn’t a fan of colder temperatures and responds better if you put a drain on the battery for 30 seconds (headlights) before demanding high cranking amps and the battery isn’t happy with a constant small amp drain like a tracker. Like all batteries, the LiFe is charge/discharge cycle lifed so the more you cycle it, the shorter the life (still lots and lots of cycles though). The other thing, LiFe doesn’t have a memory, you stop demanding amps and the battery doesn’t continue to discharge like lead acid. One final thing, LiFe batteries fail catastrophically if charged over 15v. Modern LiFe batteries have an inbuilt system to prevent this but this is why you don’t pair the battery with the older style regulator/rectifier that fail and pump the alternator output straight in to the battery, 35v ish Andy

 

Your man gave you excellent advice .....

My personal four rules regarding lithium :-

Never just whack in a lithium replacement for the original lead/acid battery , unless the bike's charging
system has been suitably modified .

Only use external charger/maintainers that are specifically designed for lithium batteries
...... I would never trust " also suitable for lithium batteries " on any labels or packaging !

If these rules are inconvenient in some way , keep a small fire extinguisher close to the bike ,
at all times ...

....

 

Very important because 0.00001% of bikes with lithium batteries have has a fire. But 0.001% of bikes with lead batteries have had a fire due to a short.

 

I must admit the above experiences are a bit surprising to me.

I started using lithium batteries circa 2015, when I put one on my 2011 848 Evo (bike was completely stock). It worked perfectly fine (actually better) and I never experienced the slightest malfunction. I used a regular battery tender as I hadn’t realized back then that a specific lithium one was needed.
When I sold that bike (2018), I kept the lithium battery and put it on my brand new 939 Supersport. Two years, regular battery tender, zero issues, and when I sold it, kept the lithium battery for my 916.
I now run lithium batteries on my 916 (mosfet reg and bigger alt cables), on my 998 (stock) and on my wife’s 796 Monster (stock). I have purchased specific lithium battery tenders, for peace of mind more than anything else, to be honest. We ride from March to November, around 5.000 km on each bike per year.

And all is perfectly fine. Never had a single issue with lithium batteries.

 

Now that is funny. I put one on my 2010 848 and it worked fine, but never use a charger. Later put it on my new 939 Supersport. The 939 SS is now up for sale and the lithium is still fitted. The battery is around 6 years old.
It has never caught fire, not once.

 

This will very much turn into the same thread as all the others, but the general feeling I get from them is that if you have a up to scratch clean charging system with a reg rec in good condition you are probably fine, the concern is generally around what happens if you stick a LiPo on a 848 (for example) that has a battery that's failed because it's been getting varied charge levels and inconsistent current. The answer commonly seems to be that the issue will be compounded by a LiPo, where as a more modern digital Reg/Rec would do a better job at smoothing out current issues relating to poor stators etc.

 

I know this is going the same way as other threads but..

These odds were enough for IATA to ban them in aircraft. Don't worry the lithium battery shall not burn for long...it shall explode before that.

 

They are not banned by the CAA! I used to have one fitted to my aircraft. This is a quote from the CAA "Lithium batteries are very safe, but because of their high energy, if they are not treated with care or if they are abused or have a manufacturing fault, they can catch fire."
If they were that bad then why are they fitted to every electronic device? Perhaps you should not carry your mobile phone around in your pocket just in case it catches fire.

 

What ?
I didn't use enough smilies when I mentioned fire ?

Thanks for the useful stats BTW .... duly noted
.... some more smilies ....

.....

 

I’d heard they hate the cold but I have a LiPo battery on my Bandit/GXSR mashup cafe racer track bike and weirdly, despite it living outside in the cold under a tarp most of the time, it’s outlasted umpteen lead acid Yuasas on the Ducatis and keeps its charge much better too. So far, it hasn’t caught fire either.

I’m not by any means gainsaying the warnings about them not getting on with old school reg/rec tech. I’m just surprised it’s always ready to go despite it living out in the cold. On the rare occasions I charge it I use a normal Optimate 3.

 

Johnny,

1/ IATA is about transport by air cargo and not use as a mechanical aircraft component. Two very different things.

2/ IATA did not ban LiPo batteries in air cargo. It is regulated by this 27 pages document:

https://www.iata.org/contentassets/...b9/lithium-battery-guidance-document-2020.pdf

There are many safety regulations about transport of dangerous cargo by plane. Keep in mind that we ship ammo, kerosene and oxygen in military cargo aircraft on a daily basis, all year round. Air forces are equipped and organized to comply with IATA rules. It requires specific equipment (loading, unloading and aircraft), specific packaging, and qualified personnel. Expensive...

I am pretty sure the constraints to transport batteries in general (LiPo or gel or acid) make it too expensive for businesses to consider it a viable option, financially. Like spray cans, for instance. Hence the « unavailability » of air transport options (not « ban »)

Anyway, don’t we all carry LiPo batteries in our pockets (cell phones) when we travel by plane?

 

Why use a lithium ion battery on a motorcycle? Eco friendly? Cheaper? Weight saving? Under seat storage space? Easier to recycle?
Just out of interest

 

Lithium batteries are more expensive. But they provide way better CCA, which does matter to start a big twin, with 0.5 cylinders... Example on a 998:
- Regular battery (YT12B-BS): 210 CCA
- Lithium (HJT12B-FP): 260 CCA
That’s 25% more...

Just that and the fact that their life span is about twice the one of a regular battery.

As far as weight is concerned, not my primary interest, as I do not race, but still, 100€ will save you 3 kgs. That’s considerably cheap compared to carbon bits and magnesium wheels...

 

Some good posts from Guillaume69,

Totally acknowledge the IATA issue, But I have to say would you put ammo, kerosene or oxygen Under your fairing right down by the front cylinder as in my ST4s.
No issue with Lithium batteries and may getting a bike with one soon. My issue is retro fitting 21st Century lithium batteries with 20th century motorcycle charger circuits. Theses charge circuits that burnet out my connectors and vary so widely in voltage and current demand.

The gains just don’t out way the risk IMHO

 

Would you put a highly explosive liquid between your legs and above your hot engine?

 

I put a lithium battery on my S4r Monster. I always conne3cted it to a lithium specific charger because the supplier said that they would not warranty it otherwise. And then the bike got smashed up and I've no idea what happened to it. I still have the lithium specific batter charger but just not the bike attachment as that went to bike heaven with the bike. It would be easy to make your own battery attachment, or maybe the supplier could supply a spare. Free to anyone that wants t it if you just refund me the postage.

 

Well, in fact, that is exactly what a fighter jet is about. Oxygen tank 10 inches from your left side (at least the ones I flew), 250 hi-explosive 30 mm rounds about 20 inches under your butt, and jet fuel literally all around, in every inch of spare room. Notwithstanding the ejection seat detonator and explosive charge, on which you literally sit daily.

All this built around a massive turbo jet delivering more heat and Hp than you could ever dream of.



Some jobs are just more dangerous than others.

 

If you are refuring to Gasoline liquid then it is not explosive (as lithium is) it is not even flamable.

indeed and motorcycling is dangerous enough. It is all up to the rider