Bike Manufacturers In Trouble...a Suggestion?

Nothing will change the fate of bike makers unless we change the way the younger generations view bikes. A few old farts complaining about green stuff killing bikes are missing the point that the death is really due to a lack of young people getting into bikes. At over 50 I am often the youngest at bike meets and if there are any in their 20s, it’s ones and twos, not the hordes it used to be. In twenty years how many bikers on here will still be riding? And things like the hate for electric bikes hardly makes it a welcoming place - how many teens have petrol bikes? Very few, how many are ragging around on electric bikes………..

 

With the patterns I’m sure that could be a great way if they can make metal ones…modern tech now with laser cutters etc could mean, with the right software etc you could make individual pieces as cheaply as big runs per unit . a real small business success

 

3d metal printing has been a thing for about 20 years now. They can do aluminium, stainless even titanium. Doesn't give the same strength yet as forged or machined and it's still more expensive than traditional manufacturing.

 

...and someone's got to create a perfect 3D-model for the part first which has got to be buildable on the machine! I get the distinct impression that Joe Public thinks that '3D-printed' parts are magically created from fairy dust! Apologies for the rant - I've been at the cutting edge of additively-manufactured metal parts for over a decade...
A selection of metals available: 316 & other Stainless steels, Maraging steel, Inconel 625 & 718, Monel, a few Aluminium alloys but mainly AlSi10MG, Copper & Copper alloys, Titanium 64 and the list is growing. All take machines that cost about £1M each, need specialised facilities and are are very slow to produce and yes, don't have the grain structure of forgings but all could be made as blanks for forging. Good for very-low volume parts for aerospace & motorsport tho' but at a very high price that goes some way to balance the cost of tooling, etc for 'conventional' parts... Oh, and most current machines have around 250x250mm bed for parts up to 300mm tall.
/end_rant

 

Still, thinking a few years ahead. If someone reproduces a rare and expensive part, let's say a gearbox casing for a Ferrari 250, and someone else on the other side of the world wants one, all they need is the machine and the file. You also don't machine away 90 odd percent of the raw material like you often do in traditional machining.

 

Agree, yes. However a part like that would originally be a casting, where there is very little material removed. Metal AM is basically mimicking cast parts (often with some advantages, especially no mould tooling).

 

Forgive my ignorance, doesn’t billet command more than cast in parts costs?

I’m using limited bike parts buying as a gauge her, as soon as it says ‘billet’ on the box it’s twice as expensive

 

Depends on how many pieces you cast. The patterns and mold are very expensive. Cast 20000+ pieces and the prices are low. Cast 10 pieces and prices are astronomical. Billet machining has a very high material cost but may be more economical for smaller numbers. There are also a number of materials or compositions that you simply can't cast.
Back to the topic. I hazard a guess that no manufacturer has kept all the cast, press, forge or other tools for models they haven't produced for more than 10 years.

 

To be honest, there is no money in keeping huge amounts of stock that you might sell but no guarantee. Stock is money sitting on the shelf.

 

Have quite a few friends with Austin 7s. You can still get a healthy number of parts off the shelf for those. It does take a dedicated number of enthusiastic owners to organise and they are pretty basic vehicles.

 

Same as when I built my 1975 custom Triumph Bonneville. There are at least half a dozen UK places to get almost all parts (other than major castings) for most major British makes, with parts for some going back to the 30s. American parts market is strong for Triumph (& possibly others) too, as the twins were so popular there in 60s/70s. However, I doubt anyone under 50 is buying parts...

 

'Billet' only means that it's machined from a lump of metal which is not a casting. It doesn't mean anything about quality, material or machining. However, there's usually a lot of material machined away to produce the part so the source material cost is high (especially if it's high-spec material). Machining set-up, machining time, material finishing and so on are high, especially for a small number of parts. Hence the 'billet' price tag...

 

And remained unchanged for many years but still have challenges such as the phosphor bronze bearings which few have the skills to do well these days. Look at the engine compatibility of something like a 350cc AJS engine, where parts can be swapped over nearly twenty years, to Jap stuff in the 80s where parts were often changed year on year on year and the enormity of keeping more modern bikes in the road becomes apparent. Thankfully there are enthusiasts who work wonders but I think survival rates from post 90s bikes will be a fraction of that for pre 80s stuff.

 

Some super educational and useful stuff on this thread

 

We can say many things about Henry Cole, bless him, but he is at least a nice guy on a motorcycle who is giving motorcycling decent exposure. Exposure that is different from the tired old tropes of gangs & grease & speed & racing.

He also has articles on his show that help to promote the mental health aspects and inclusivity of the motorcycling fraternity and motorcycling as a life interest. I recall a couple about female rider groups and how they have helped women with their self confidence.

I don't have much proof but I think many (most?) new riders aren't the scally 18 year olds of our youth but older, mid twenties say, people who are seeing the excitement, family & 'life style' of motorcycling as an attraction (from boring SUVs). And I think manufacturers are aware of this, type in triumph into google and it completes it with 'Triumph Speed 400'. Go to it's wed site and they'll be picture of both (young) men & women riding the bike. Do the same with Royal Enfield and their HNTR 350 - see their web site promo pic below. All manufacturers have similar 'safe' A2 models that introduce newcomers to motorcycling and also to their own marque with a range that allows them to upgrade for years to come.

Perhaps we only see guys of our own age because it's only guys of our own age that go to the same places we do.

 

You have to hunt on a BBC NI page for any info on motorcycle racing, so it certainly ain’t mainstream. (unless you go to specialist sites). Can’t recall a bike ad on TV ever?

Saying bout younguns going to places where us old farts don’t or vice versa, that doesn’t correlate with the low numbers at bike shows from my own experience - at 53 last time I went to one (a year ago) I was one of the younger ones!

 

I was late to it myself - 46 (54 now).

Not through want of trying. Mum wouldn't let me have one, neither would first wife.

In 2015 I got a 30’s Harley single and that was restored, after which I had to take a test - it was a 350 and DVLA went on that rather than it’s whopping 12BHP (or probably less given age/wear). My wife suffered it, then once I had my licence I bought all sorts, up to current 2098 and Triumph Scrambler 1200XE.

Most of my friends couldn't care less - they might see me in the pub with a lid and ask if I came on the bike (errrr yeah!).

So I have separate bike mates, except one who off the back of me passing, decided to do it too and we ride a fair bit together. He rode a lot (illegally) as a teenager so has kind of come back to it.

Anyways, every opportunity I get when I see youguns on scoots or they ask about my bike, I encourage them as much as possible to take a test and get their A/A2 licence - we deffo need fresh blood.

 

Things can change pretty quickly...
Who would have predicted a couple years ago that Guinness would become a trendy drink with young women? Now demand for Guinness has outstripped supply.
I figure sooner or later, some 'influencer' will do something that will get a chunk the youth population interested in biking... perhaps Taylor Swift will swing a leg over a Harley or maybe some professional footballers will start to ride bikes instead of tacky sports cars?