Advice (or help) please: Monster 696+ (2010 model) - currently has Brembo discs front and rear. Left front disc has warped. Brembo replacement front discs cost £204 each (!) EBC replacements cost £150 each. Are the EBC discs as good as the Brembos??
I'm sure you could find some decent used ones for less than £150 each........I'm certain someone on here will have some... AL
I don't think they are. When I searched hours for best pads on my Fazer a few weeks ago the general consensus on ebc discs and pads was many ppl didnt rate them. At a guess they're 6th or 7th down the list. Genuine is usually at the top, Mintex at the bottom, and Brembo above EBC. That's how I interpreted my findings. 2nd hand, eBay is ur best bet. Just be sure to ask the seller the disc thickness. Sounds silly, but have you tried removing the disc and cleaning the mounting face? That solved my wobbly disc problem on my Fazer when I got it.
Sue how much run out did he measure? If it is a small amount then we might be able to straighten it. Let me know.
Spoke to Motoliner (thanks Pete) - but they won't touch Ducati floating discs....... Are there any other parts/disc suppliers which are equivalent to Brembo??
Sue Just noticed your post. Who has told you that you need a new disc? Have you had any issues with your brakes?, as you didn't mention any when we were all looking at your rear ( wheel) on Sunday Seems unlikely that you have a 'warped' disc, warped sense of humor possibly as you hang out with some doggy characters. Do you notice anything unusual with the brakes- are the bobbins clean and the pads o.k. My advice would be not to rush into spending money until you have had at minimum a second opinion regarding the brakes.
I took the bike in to Honda on Saturday and the mechanic there noticed that what I was trying to describe was actually the front brake sensation.... it is juddering on contact with the pads - because there is a warp in the left brake disc. It went on the dti machine and the disc has a 1mm warp. This is not terminal (!!), however, it does cause issues when braking in traffic. I could leave it for now - but it is likely to wear the (pretty new) front pads unevenly. Honda did not try and sell me any discs, Gary said it was safe to ride .... but I can feel it - it is not as if we don't need our brakes around Sussex!!
I recently had a new pair of discs fitted under waranty for a persistent grabbyness of the brakes at low speed and a vibration at higher speed. The discs and pads had been cleaned initially and although it improved the situation the basic problem remained. There was no measurable warp on the disc but one theory was that the disc was warping due to differential expansion when hot. The new discs made me realise just how bad they had been previously, but being a big v-twin I rarely used the brakes much and just lived with it. I am glad I didn't have to fork out for a pair of brembos though.
Sue From Ducati.ms "Often uneven pad transfer is confused for disc warping. In reality, the majority of brake discs which are diagnosed as "warped" are actually simply the product of uneven transfer of pad material. Uneven pad transfer will often lead to a thickness variation of the disc. When the thicker section of the disc passes between the pads, the pads will move apart and the brake pedal will raise slightly; this is pedal pulsation. The thickness variation can be felt by the driver when it is approximately 0.17 mm or greater (on automobile discs). When did you have the new pads you mentioned fitted? Where they the correct type for your bike? Did the fitting of the new pads coincide with your problems? This type of thickness variation has many causes, but there are three primary mechanisms which contribute the most to the propagation of disc thickness variations connected to uneven pad transfer. The first is improper selection of brake pads for a given application. Pads which are effective at low temperatures, such as when braking for the first time in cold weather, often are made of materials which decompose unevenly at higher temperatures. This uneven decomposition results in uneven deposition of material onto the brake disc. Another cause of uneven material transfer is improper break in of a pad/disc combination. For proper break in, the disc surface should be refreshed (either by machining the contact surface or by replacing the disc as a whole) every time the pads are changed on a vehicle. Once this is done, the brakes are heavily applied multiple times in succession. This creates a smooth, even interface between the pad and the disc. When this is not done properly the brake pads will see an uneven distribution of stress and heat, resulting in an uneven, seemingly random, deposition of pad material. The third primary mechanism of uneven pad material transfer is known as "pad imprinting." This occurs when the brake pads are heated to the point that the material begins to break-down and transfer to the disc. In a properly broken in brake system (with properly selected pads), this transfer is natural and actually is a major contributor to the braking force generated by the brake pads. However, if the vehicle comes to a stop and the driver continues to apply the brakes, the pads will deposit a layer of material in the shape of the brake pad. This small thickness variation can begin the cycle of uneven pad transfer. Once the disc has some level of variation in thickness, uneven pad deposition can accelerate, sometimes resulting in changes to the crystal structure of the metal that composes the disc in extreme situations. As the brakes are applied, the pads slide over the varying disc surface. As the pads pass by the thicker section of the disc, they are forced outwards. The foot of the driver applied to the brake pedal naturally resists this change, and thus more force is applied to the pads. The result is that the thicker sections see higher levels of stress. This causes an uneven heating of the surface of the disc, which causes two major issues. As the brake disc heats unevenly it also expands unevenly. The thicker sections of the disc expand more than the thinner sections due to seeing more heat, and thus the difference in thickness is magnified. Also, the uneven distribution of heat results in further uneven transfer of pad material. The result is that the thicker-hotter sections receive even more pad material than the thinner-cooler sections, contributing to a further increase in the variation in the disk's thickness. In extreme situations, this uneven heating can actually cause the crystal structure of the disc material to change. When the hotter sections of the discs reach extremely high temperatures(1200-1300 degrees Fahrenheit), the carbon within the cast iron of the disc will react with the iron molecules to form a carbide known as cementite. This iron carbide is very different from the cast iron the rest of the disc is composed of. It is extremely hard, very brittle, and does not absorb heat well. After cementite is formed, the integrity of the disc is compromised. Even if the disc surface is machined, the cementite within the disc will not wear or absorb heat at the same rate as the cast iron surrounding it, causing the uneven thickness and uneven heating characteristics of the disc to return".
That is most helpful....... but makes the number of possible variable causes of what I experience to rise exponentially! I can see the sense - but how on earth can I tell why? There is a 1mm dti-measured diffential. But yes, the disc was not really hot (Honda are only 2 miles from my house, and there was traffic). So I am left with the juddering issue - whether it be pads, heat-generated issues or discs with deposition on them. Whichever way, the bike is not right. So what is your suggestion as to how I should try and resolve this? Because even if I buy new Brembos and pads, your Ducati.ms exert would suggest that more should be done to correctly bed discs and brakes in?? Help!
I think firstly clean the bobbins, that's not too tricky. Secondly remove the pads for visual inspection and if necessary clean the surface with some coarse abrasive , again not too tricky. I do hope the chap that used the d.t.i could differentiate between 1mm and 0.1mm! Try taking the bike for a ride afterwards and making the brakes do some hard work, to settle them in. BTW I am not an expert in these matters, just offering advice. Of course anything to do with brakes is vital that the work is done correctly.
Adjusters were deceiving - it was within 0.002 (two-thousandths) - so well within tolerance..... stumped on that one, for sure. Gary showed me the digital measure, so I know he was accurate........ whether his digital measurer is accurate - well that I can't know!
Assume they tightened the chain then? What you were describing has no relevance to front disc at all imo, and if its warped the juddering under braking would be very noticeable
Yes again! :smile: I just tend not to mention stuff that people might think is a problem only because I am not male! Yes ... it has been juddering for a while.
A woman who doesn't complain about stuff that may be wrong?! You must be a dream to live with :biggrin:
ummm - no comment. But - since the whole debacle with a certain Ducati dealership in my town earlier this year, I am wary of what tell people about what I think is wrong with my Monster.....
