Reusing The V4 Engine Design

Discussion in 'D16 Desmosedici RR' started by JimDane, Jun 20, 2014.

  1. Apart from the insanely expensive Desmosedicis I wonder why Ducati never has used the V4 engine for a street bike. Is it just too expensive or in others ways not usable?

    It seems like a lot of development ressources, racetrack durability experiences etc. is lost when they had to start from scratch doing the Panigale engines. It must have been a pretty expensive way compared to partly reusing a known engine design. Aprilia has done it now with a lot of V4's on the tracks around here and they are pretty fast!

    br

    Jim
     
  2. hmmm, a v4 cost efficient super bike new project with the potential to compete on world levels........based on stuff we already have...

    what have i told you about thinking...i much prefer something to struggle on the world stage contain new technology that ..er didn't really work at gp level so lets put it in the super bike and see....still its pretty...
     
  3. The problem is that the stressed engine and airbox is the next logical step in motorcycle chassis design. It has been used in formula cars since the 80s to improve chassis stiffness and reduce weight. Bikes are different in that an overly stiff frame can be a hindrance as it loses any compliance when the bike is leaning over however this could be dialed back in with the right design. While it hasn't worked (yet) it doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't the right direction to go.

    As for the V4, its a cracking engine but way more expensive to produce than the established v twins. Ducati are scared to develop it further for fear of upsetting the purists...
     
  4. I don't believe that the V4 thing will happen because Ducati say that the 'Twin' is in there DNA etc; they don't want to deviate from that. Having said that they also said that about the steel trellis frame!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

  5. in their dna...................apart from in the moto gp dna...
     
  6. Hey I'm not looking for an argument! Just saying what I read when various journalists speculated over whether the 1199 would be a v4!

    I personally wouldn't care; I am sure the desmo is incredible and I am sure they could make a Big Bang v4
     
  7. The Purists must already be on full alert after the Panigale lost the Trellis frame and the dry clutch, the only thing left to ditch is the desmo system! I don't know why they haven't abanoded it on the cheaper Monster models already, it would be a lot easier/cheaper to produce and the Monsters make all the money with just about no real development being done on the engines.

    br

    Jim
     

  8. i agree with you......they can't play the dna card when so much of it has been removed long gone...
     
  9. All the belt drive engines have been desmos. If they re-introduced valve springs, last seen on the 860 bevel, that would place much added stress on the belts. The whole system of belts and pulleys would have to be revised, I expect, or it would become unreliable.
     
  10. Yeah, possibly. I guess the thing is that back then, you needed to reduce internal engine friction as much as possible to get usable power out of the twins and the desmo system is really good at that. I wonder if they actually need it now for putting out a decent power from the smaller aircooled 2V engines. I guess that the increased heat generation may demand watercooling.

    When you can get 94 hp out of a traditionally springloaded Aprilia Shiver 750 you wouldn't need desmo any more if you accept watercooling. I hope for the future of smaller Ducati's that they are working on a new, watercooled 750 engine, you really can't boil any more soup on that old lump of a 2V engine!

    br

    Jim
     
  11. Some of the roads I've just ridden shows that a nice torquey V twin is a hell of a handy piece of kit. I'd miss the twin thing. But theres room for both. Some like it revvy, other like it lumpy. I like lumps. Big ones. The punch out of corners is so.....
     
  12. I hear you while recalling a test drive on a 748 after riding my old 900SS, it was damned hard to accept that the 748 should have 30 more HP when they were only ever there if you trashed the hell out of it. For street use, lumpy is great!

    Jim
     
  13. Most of the Rotax singles used chain-driven cams, Steve. I actually had one of the 650 BMW DOHC singles, and it definitely had a chain. Only a few models used belts.

    Belts work just fine and reliably, provided they are wide enough, provided they don't get too hot, provided the pulleys are big enough in diameter, and provided they don't run too fast. Unfortunately in Ducatis the belts tend to be narrow, hot and fast with small pulleys. Hence it is better to give them an easier life by having a desmo setup instead of valve springs. As you well know, down the years Ducati have revised the specification of the belt system many times over, and they could certainly uprate it yet again if they needed to. But the point under discussion was how to save money in manufacturing cheap Monsters, not how to spend more money on belts.
     
  14. They don't have 94bhp, though. 80 at best.
     
Do Not Sell My Personal Information