Hitchens razor "That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" Read his words. All organised religion is a waste of time. Those are my words by the way !
I have no religion other than trying to do the right thing to other people where ever I can. Wish I could do it all the time but some people do get right up your nose. Hoever to return to my diatribe. We all know the right thing to do all we have to do is do it. It can get a bit difficult I know but if we all try hard it will make a better world. Also I do like to be in a church during a service. Somthing very English about it. Regards Steve
duke 1276 gutted about your buddy but your missing the point ....religion is the smoke and mirrors used to control and contort peoples beliefs, religion did not kill your buddy some brain washed fuckwit did that, running the drugs trade through the middle east in to europe is not religion based but greed, money, power, crime...running whore houses all over the middle east and balkans, trafficking women is not religious based ... i also think if you look closely at the Troubles particularly the in to the late 80s and 90s you will find everything was driven by crime , drug running and money not an out and out religious belief that what they were doing was for the good of God... I think you will find the vast majority of our Crusaders were promised vast amounts of money, land and titles in return for their swords so again very few of them really went on a holy pilgrimage mate,, Its a very easy 'out' to say it is all down to religion.....that IMHO is bullshit
As I posted elsewhere, religion often just serves as a badge to delineate a community that you don't like for some reason. As I recall very vaguely from O level history, some English king or other (could have been a James) handed over lands in Northern Ireland (was just Ireland then) as a thank-you to a load of Protestant Scots. They settled there in their new estates. As one might have expected, the incumbent Catholics took a dim view of this. The troubles were born. The Protestant/Catholic divide was just a convenient badge to identify the descendants of the so-called robbers and the robbed.
I disagree having seen it up close crime ,extortion ,drugs , etc is all part of it ..... Religion ( read terrorism and war) can't run on thin air ...... I might come across as just a soldier but if I went somewhere I studied the reasoning behind it .... Humanity is vile , I've seen it smelt it etc .... Anyway to redress the balance I'm watching " kingdom of heaven" yaaaaaay let kill some sand snorters in the name of god
in most countries, a working knowledge of the language OR acceptance onto a government sanctioned course are prerequisites to entry Luca for permanent residence. Look at australias points system for example. ps..seeing as christopher hitchens is/was my intellectual superhero, and ive seen virtually every single debate that was ever recorded and read every book he's ever published why not check out the 'Is the Catholic Church a Force For good' debate...His sidekick is Stephen Fry and they take on that stupid misguided old sow, Anne Widdecombe and some Super Bishop for Africa....its pure comedy as she Hitch slapped and tries to defend sexism, racism and homophobia, the central tenets of Christianity.... Its not her fault of course...these actually ARE in the rule book.. pps. if you want a REAL laugh, actually READ the 10 commandments (which were edited down from about 30 by the way from subsequent rewrites of the bible..reason?? the others were too ridiculous...honestly)
I do not know. If you removed religion no one would be doing those things in name of religion. They would do it for money yes definitely but that means they would not blow themselves up and half a block with it as they would want to spend that money. Things you mention are done by people using religion as a tool. Take away the tool .... If we apply your way of thinking to other aspects then religion is a gun, guy controlling it is trigger man. Trigger man is nothing but a bloke pointing hand at you without a gun.
But is it the case in UK or is it one of those things that should be copied from other countries? First step to peaceful coexistence is communication, that isn't gonna happen if you speak no lingo. Also general principle of 10 commandments is correct one. Think about it by definition God is all powerful. He decided to give you free will which means no control over you. As the smartest being then he would know better but to set some simple and clear rules. Do not kill, exception self defence. Do not steal. Do not lie and so on. You have the rules going you setup consequences. If you obey them all automatic heaven, disobey them all automatic hell. Mix off purgatory so we can have a look and judge. No if's, no but's. No bullshit of for example killing in name of God. You went to kill infidel you go to hell as it was not in self defence. He is fine he was defending himself double bugger.
This is the aesthetic argument for religion. Some people like the music, singing, smells & bells, stained glass windows, embroidery, architecture, etc and attend churches for that. No belief in religion is necessary. I agree, and I particularly like the architecture. Many churches and cathedrals are wonderful buildings. So are palaces, fortresses, and pagan temples (my all time favourite is the Parthenon on the Acropolis of Athens). These are obsolete ancient monuments which should be preserved and cherished as part of the cultural history of mankind. That has nothing to do with present-day ethical issues. The Victoria and Albert Museum, Kensington has a wonderful collection of religious artifacts which we can go and enjoy free of charge whenever we like. Again, no belief in religion is necessary.
duke 1276 your views, regardless of your claimed personal experience will mean that humanity, to quote you, stays vile....if you really did study the culture and even the enemy you might see past the smoke and mirrors. The crime, drugs etc are not a part of religion at all they are a part of a group of peoples will to exploit others and empower themselves, if our Armed Forces run with the view you have then there is little hope for anyone. I may be an ex soldier now plying my trade across the globe in a private capacity but I believe your very wrong my friend. Stat low and move fast..
Lucozade your right,,you do not know! You seem to miss my point, If there were no religion at all in the world these type of people would exist and find another 'cause' to believe in. There are plenty of Muslims who take the fight to the insurgents and kill them, not in the name of Allah but in the name of freedom and the rights that a civil society is entitled to live by. the problem with these topics is that everyone has a view, some educated and some only from media sources. The smoke and mirrors would exist to mask the pure badness of men, it just so happens that the theme is religion, take that away the theme would be something else...perhaps a freedom fighting cause like the Kurdish Workers Party...they happen to be the biggest heroin traffickers across Europe through Turkey. WTF does heroin have to do with reclaiming territory or protesting against Turkey's human rights records, WTF does blowing up Istanbul Airport killing civilians have to do with their cause?? I could go on for ever with this topic and maybe we will never agree. What I do now is from very personal experience, I write this from a place that has been subjected to insurgents for several years, the local people are sick of them and their ways THEY do not believe it is for good of Islam so if they can see past the smoke and mirrors surely those thousands of miles away might also see through it, unless your a Daily Express reader. All the best buddy Stay Safe
I was raised in a staunchly christian household. My uncle was a lay preacher and my cousin runs a monastery in the Shetlands. Even as a young child none of the bibles' 'teachings' seemed plausible, and none of it seemed to cary even the slightest tinge of reality. In essence though, what I saw was an excuse for horrific bullying as a child (at haloween people would knock on our door, just to hear my dad tell them haloween was evil and they should go home to read the bible) isolation and a life that only had six and a half days in it. Anything that happened on a Sunday morning was out of the question as that was church time. As an adult I have met and am proud to say I know a few gay men. According to the religious teachings that have brain washed religious bigots these guys still face prejudice and torment as the bible thumpers consider their orientation a choice. A close friend of mine in the US (one of the afore mentioned gay guys) has seen his life and family destroyed by the catholic church, as they tried to 'de programme' him from his evil ways - eventually this lead to his parents separating due to his fathers refusal to accept his son for who he is. Religion was created as a way of controlling the masses - its a fantastic tool - "do as I say or you earn a one way ticket to unending damnation" with no one able to come back from the dead to denounce the vile gibberish spewed from the hateful mouths of power hungry rulers. With no real understanding of science or any tangible alternative its unsurprising it spread like wildfire. Religion represents the darkest and most manipulative side of humanity and is pure evil. I have first hand seen the misery and suffering it creates, the true tragedy is the victims of this suffering often do not even realise how compromised their lives have been by this terrible scar on the face of humanity.
@ Thespionkop sorry but I think you did not get my post. Yes if you remove religion another reason will be put in place to control the masses. Thing is religion is ideology, an idea. People believe in it (as side effect get controlled using it) and that is reward for them in it self being a good Christian, Muslim, Jewish you name it. If you remove religion it will be almost certainly replaced by motivation of material goods. What goes without saying is to use material goods you need to be alive. In such case how will you convince someone to go and blow himself up if he will not be able to use the reward no matter what? Also idea is in people heads (in this case religion) if you kill head of the religion, religion will most likely survive as it is not material just an idea. You will probably make it worse. No matter how many leaders of said group you will kill idea will live on in those left. Crusades and any religious war is an example of that. You commit genocide and murder everyone of "none believers" or you let the idea (religion) live on. If you remove religion and it gets replaced with average criminals seeking power and money, killing few at the top will make the organisation collapse. Rest of the group will not blindly seek revenge they will just move on to other things.
Which makes them kind off funny. Besides they are the only religion that openly says the richer you are the higher church position you have.
The flying spaghetti monster is the one true god. Anyone who says differently will be smited by a rain of gian meatballs, parmisan optional.
