Featured 1260 1260 Vs '15 Dvt - Back-to-back

Discussion in 'Multistrada' started by Rainman, Feb 5, 2018.

  1. Picked up my 1260S Touring in white on Friday morning. Have only done 100 miles but thought I'd share my initial findings, much of which you probably have already have read about,

    The display - big improvement, both in terms of readability and also the user interface. I never had a problem with the old screen but the new one is noticeably clearer. The interface is much more representative of a modern bike and not so much an 8-bit games console. Animated sequences on things like gear changes, display options, etc, is a nice touch.

    Heated grips - a very noticeable improvement. On Friday it was +3c when I picked up my 1260. Once I got going I actually felt the need to lower the power to medium as my hands started to get a bit clammy inside my Dainese Scout Evo gloves. My hands were toasty, whereas the old DVT when it was approaching 0 degrees C you struggled to be able to tell if they were even on.

    Gearbox - The quickshift is a little quirky compared to others I've used. If you leave your toe at the end of the upshift position for any period of time the ECU will see it as another shift and will cut the throttle briefly - data from the load cell isn't being processed after the change has happened, so the system can't tell whether your toe has gone back to where it was before the gear change happened, so timing of the shift sequence is partly down to you. Don't be lazy with your toe when shifting up and it's fine. The throttle cut timing is also hugely generous, resulting in a bit of a lurch during changes with a wider throttle opening. Whether this timing is something that gets better with higher revs we'll find out after the break-in period. Whilst this might sound like a criticism lets not forget that a lot of quick shifters need you to be working the engine above the first 1/3 of the rev range before they will work properly, but the 1260's QS works right off the bottom end at any revs. By comparison, on my MT10SP I tend to only use the QS when getting on the gas in the mid-range because it just doesn't play well below 4K rpm whereas the 1260's works pretty much everywhere. Aside from needing some slightly positive toe pressure there is nothing much to say about the auto-blipper because it is otherwise sublime. It's just effortless downshifts at any revs, exactly as it should be. Very happy with the system and an obvious plus over having nothing previously.

    I'm having a small issue with finding neutral when stationary. If I roll to stop I can find neutral with the clutch in and still moving, but once I stop I'm just going 1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2-1-turn-off-engine-N. It's a bit like it's overfilled with oil, and looking at the level on the oil spy-glass it looks like it just might be. I'll report back on this.

    Engine - Simply put, this is how the '15 DVT should have been out of the box. Even after a continual release of new ECU code for the '15 DVT the low-down drive had seen some improvement but it's still not a patch on the 1260. The 1260 is just much more flexible even from just below 2K RPM and you will no longer get caught out in the wrong gear. Obviously, don't just grab a fistful at bugger-all revs because it will still feel a bit lumpy, but you don't have to nanny the throttle either - just ride and use the throttle normally and it behaves really well in the region between 1500 and 3K RPM, and upto 6K RPM its got much more drive and even very slight throttle adjustments translate really directly to forward momentum without being jerky. The old DVT I always felt I needed to make much more positive efforts to progress quickly - dropping a gear and whacking the throttle wide open, always thinking it was only able to deliver "just enough" to qualify as quick unless you felt like revving it right out, where it absolutely was quick, but that’s not where you spend 90% of your time when riding. Throughout the range permitted during the 1260's break-in (the period of which there is a virtual limiter in play) it feels like the engine is much more eager to spin - it’s a fair bit more lively. As a bit of a side issue, I often had the feeling with my old DVT that the starter motor wasn't well matched to the compression of the old 1200. When you thumbed the starter button it would turn over until it started to get near TDC and begin to stall until a spark lit the charge and fired it into life - which admittedly it did, very reliably. The 1260's lump just spins like a jap four on the starter. Probably just a better spec starter motor and beefier electrics in general to provide the appropriate amps to turn it over more confidently. I know this means nothing to performance but it adds to the overall impression of a much more sorted power-plant.

    On the '15 DVT they improved the various throttle maps in the different modes on some of the ECU re-flashes, but I still felt the need to set my "Touring" mode to use the full-power and most aggressive setting. The 1260's un-tweaked "Touring" mode feels even better than that. Loads of drive and a much improved response, yet completely civilised. I won't be tweaking the "Touring" mode but I probably will bump up the engine setting in "Urban" mode, just because.

    Handling - Well if they've softened the rake then I can't feel it in the areas where I thought I would. It still tips in easy on the initial turn-in on low speed corners. It all feels so familiar but high speed handling is noticeably more planted. Essentially, they've got this aspect completely spot on. You often read about geometry changes and shudder at the thought of the subtle tweaking having the effect of making the handling quirky or just ruined, but this isn't. It's just another very subtle improvement.

    All up it's a whole raft of small changes, as has been reported in many places - maybe with the exception of the engine because to describe it as such would be to downplay it. Some of the differences are more nuanced, but within just the engine department those small differences add up to put a much wider smile on your face than that previous gen. The pure "twist'n'go at any revs" capability, which should be a factor on any litre-plus bike, is back and it's damned good.

    I'm also noticing some improvements on fixtures and fittings. After 3 winters on the old DVT I know exactly where the weak points are in terms of corrosion on bolt-heads, etc. There are a few sets of bolts in obvious spots where there has clearly been an up-tick in quality. For example, wheel clamp bolts and those securing the pillion footrests appear to have more substantial finishes rather than just being left plain. We'll have a better idea over the last of these winter weeks but there does appear to have been some consideration that an all-can-do bike needs to be able to do it in all conditions, all year round.

    So on reflection - having acquired the 1260S Touring without even test riding it, purely on the back of a couple of press reviews that confirmed that the new bike hasn't been ruined at least - am I happy that I've changed from my perfectly good '15 DVT? Actually, I am, and much more than I thought I would. It is all small changes but collectively I believe that they are more significant than the sum of their parts. For anyone wondering whether to change then it is an obviously better bike, in no small part because of the new engine. The journo's might all be saying that it's just a small update, but I doubt that any of them have lived with the previous bike for nearly 17,000 miles in 2 years and then ridden the '15 DVT and 1260 back-to-back.

    I could now have a bit of a conundrum. I have two bikes in my garage, the Multi 1260S and an MT-10SP. The bike I previously took out of the garage reflected my mood or the requirement at the time. The '15 DVT would be the bike I'd take if I was just going to work, doing longer distances and touring, lugging some stuff around, etc, and the MT-10SP for when I just wanted to go out for a slightly more lively experience. I've got a distinct feeling that when the 1260S is broken in then that’s going to change. I don't think it's ever going to be as much of a hooligan as the Yam but the gap is surely going to be a narrower, but then it might just be that I've got "new bike syndrome". Only time will tell.
     
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  2. Interesting write up, especially the last point. Everything I’ve read indicated that Ducati revised the bike to make it more cultured and easier to use. If they’ve ve succeeded, and they’ve made it more of a hooligan when you want it to be, then they’ve done an epic revision.
     
  3. Well exactly. "Easy to use" could easily translate into "quicker".
     
  4. Nice review rainman :)
     
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  5. Very interesting Rainman. I've got a '15s Touring with 16500 miles on it, so very similar to yours. I've been quoted over the phone a ballpark figure of £7k to change for the 1260. Is that somewhere near what you paid? My experiences with with my DVT are also very similar to yours - e.g. using Sport throttle mode in Touring. I'm happy with it and would certainly keep it if I could get a sensibly priced warranty on it, but to hear your initial thoughts has me thinking :thinkingface:
     
  6. So they're basically giving you £11.5K for your bike. I haven't bought my 1260, it's on a PCP lease, as was my DVT. That said the figures look broadly similar.
     
  7. :) A genuinely informative and interesting review, so really appreciated as the feedback is helpful and constructive, well for me anyway.
    I'm seriously considering swapping in my 2015 plate (2014) 'fettled' Pikes Peak for a 1260 MTS.
    I'm virtually decided, but your thoughts and views assist with encouraging a more decisive mind-set and potential approach.

    If I change, there will also be quite a few goodies for the 2010-2014 variants, including a full-race Termi, with map, etc., which might interest one or two on the site.
    Anyway, a side issue in the overall scheme of things, so cheers for the ideas. :upyeah:
     
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  8. Great review. I,m on old 2017 1200s bike but your comment on gearbox selecting neutral is exactly what mine was like for a 1000 miles or so, but now it,s perfect.
     
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  9. Seconded, my ‘17 DVT wouldn’t find Neutral until the first service. Sweet as a nut now.
     
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  10. I did find some info in other reviews about the gearbox neutral issue. Michael Mann on "Bike Social" (Bennett's own website, I believe) mentions the issue and approached the Multistrada’s Project Engineer, Davide Previtera, who explained that "it’s down to the spring-loaded nature of the quickshift/clutch combo that works to ensure a smooth as possible shift through neutral which, after several more miles, will improve."

    PS - deliberately didn't include a link to their website as I'm buggered if I'm giving any insurance company free click-through advertising.
     
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  11. Nice review and informative.

    I’ve been wondering about changing my 2015 DVT but was a bit underwhelmed by the initial “professional” first rides reports from Gran Canaria (as most appear to be). A couple of those said not a big enough upgrade to change but your review puts a different slant on that and has the all important back to back judgement! Definitely added some food for thought.

    Especially interested to hear the view about the bikes handling capabilities because again, the view among some journos was that the bike was slower to turn in.
     
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  12. Nice review and informative.

    I’ve been wondering about changing my 2015 DVT but was a bit underwhelmed by the initial “professional” first rides reports from Gran Canaria (as most appear to be). A couple of those said not a big enough upgrade to change but your review puts a different slant on that and has the all important back to back judgement! Definitely added some food for thought.

    Especially interested to hear the view about the bikes handling capabilities because again, the view among some journos was that the bike was slower to turn in.
     
  13. Well this is one area of those reviews that I'd definitely take exception to. Firstly, the Multistrada is the only 17" front wheel bike in this format that I know of that has a weird trade-off for a set of tyres. I'm currently riding every morning at 6am in sub-zero temperatures and I'm far from being a racer yet I'm able to ride to the edge of the Scorpion's and that isn't because they're excellent tyres. They work well within their own lean-angle range, but that range is limited compared to other normal (sports touring) tyres. Given that the limited angle of lean is due to the overly flat profile to the road surface then that also has to translate into slower turn in compared to another tyre with a more aggressive (normal) radius.

    The last '15 DVT the bulk of those probably rode was at the previous launch over 2 years ago, in which case how can they make a comparison? If they rode that bike more recently, and it was a demo or a "long term" bike then it would be unlikely to have the Scorpion Trail on it still, in which case it would feel like a more agile bike than at the original launch. Then they head to the 1260 launch and they're back on Scorpion Trails again. No wonder!
     
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  14. Thanks for review in the real world, It's a tough call on my part my 2015 DVT 17k miles, has Full Termi, top half of the engine has been rebuilt to solve oil usage, and has worked, has new brakes all round, new Clutch Slave, Steering Head checked and nipped up, solving the slight shimmy, new chain and sprockets bigger rear, Valve service was included when engine sorted (under Warranty) Bike is really clean goes like a dream, and my god a lot faster than before when it used oil. What to do What to do????

    False Neutrals sometimes can be eased by slight adjustment on the clutch peddle lever, and the oil for running in is sometimes different I believe?

    Give us some more updates after it run in
     
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  15. Indeed, I believe that it is oil related, either too much or too thick. Although this morning when I pulled up at work I managed to snick my first neutral with the engine running at idle. Yay!
     
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  16. Nice write up of the differences.

    A couple of days ago I had a few hours on the 1260s while my '15 DVT was in the workshop (brake recall).
    It's not easy to make an objective comparison between a bike I've had for nearly three years and have done about 15,000 miles on and a new one with only a hundred or so miles...but I mostly agree with your comments.
    My main observations, other than those already mentioned are:
    * Seat - I found myself sliding forward under braking or deceleration. I don't know if the dealer had applied something to the seat but it felt very slippery compared to mine (and didn't seem to have solved the nut bunching effect of the 'old' models).
    * Gearbox - felt very slick with shorter throw than mine.
    * Engine - the increased torque is noticeable; but so is the engine braking which I found uncomfortably sharp at lower speeds/revs.
    * Ride - it may be because it's new (certainly newer than mine) but the 1260 ride felt firmer.
    * Hold control - like others have mentioned, it doesn't stay on for long enough and it's not obvious when it's coming off (the flashing indicator on the dash is pretty small).
    * Indicator self-cancelling - I found it didn't function consistently and so I was always checking, and often cancelling manually.

    Overall, a great bike but the sum of the changes/upgrades are not enough for me to justify trading up.
     
  17. Mine is in for brake and hose recall Monday, and they are giving me a 1260 to play on, so will be interested to see also, will post my findings then.....
     
  18. Make sure it's a 'S' with heated grips ;)
     
  19. Heated grips ??? Big girls blouse eh @broke :p:D, but yeah, will try mate :upyeah:
     
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  20. Had a test ride on the 1260 Multi today, while my 2017 1200S was having the brake recall done (plus fitting an Oberon clutch slave cylinder and some brake pads).

    20180207_104414.jpg

    * Handling and roadholding seemed just the same to me - at least I couldn't detect any difference. Maybe the freezing temperatures and icy patches were a trifle inhibiting.
    * The dash display is no improvement, if anything harder to read than before. But the menuing system is much better, clearer and more intuitive to use.
    * The gearchange is completely different. Shorter throws to the lever, and the QuickShifter is really great (confession: I had never used a QS before, so nothing to compare it with). Love it.
    * Clutch engagement seemed rather abrupt and a bit juddery, perhaps because the demo bike had only done 400 miles so far.
    * I had expected the bigger engine to feel more grunty and flywheel-y. Nothing of the kind - if anything it felt lighter, revvier, and more like a smaller engine.
    * The paint job on the test bike is dull dull dull.

    Will I buy one? Not sure. Not different enough, some of the changes are no improvements, but I do like the QS. Maybe in 2019 or 2020 ...
     
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