Hi All, this is my first post and i'm hoping someone here can help me! Just bought a standard 749 model year 2006, roughly 8000 miles on the clock, full ducati service history. The guy i bought it off hadn't ridden it much in the past two years (100 miles to the MOT station and back :O ). I'm having issues with flooding the bike when starting. I keep the bike on an optimate 24/7, battery is good (new a couple of weeks ago), put the key in and the fuel pumps sounds like it primes as it should (my dad has had a fair few ducati's and it sounds very similar to his hyper now). Battery voltage reads over 12v before i hit the starter.... now here's the funny part... i can start the bike when i get it out of the garage to go on a ride no problem. I appreciate theres a 'knack' to starting these bikes, mine is, no choke, about 0.5 cm of throttle and hit the starter it fires within seconds... however, if i pull up somewhere for around 10-20 minutes and try to go and start it again it really struggles to start and inevitably i have flooded the engine a few times and had to go and get a trailer to get the bike back home. If I leave the bike to completely cool it starts up no problem, and also if i stall the bike when hot it starts up no problem, using the starting 'knack' as mentioned above... Has anybody had a similar problem to this? If so, can anybody shed any light on what might be going on? any suggestions are greatly appreciated because i'm really scratching my head with this one and i'm getting pretty embarrassed/ p**sed off having to come and trailer my bike home. I took it to DMC in Preston for them to have a look at it and low and behold it started every single time and it was sort of 'whats your problem?'!!! The problem is intermittent and i have been out on the bike for rides and had no problem going back to it and starting it after stop off's. Cheers. Alex.
If it's an 06 then it will have servo start. All you do is hit the starter and it will crank until it fires. If you open the throttle it will get a bit unhappy and won't like starting. Here is the section from the Operations Manual. 2) Move the cold start lever (1) to (B, fig. 43). 3) Check that the stop switch (2, fig. 44) is positioned to (RUN), then press the starter button (3, fig. 44). This model features servo-assisted starting. Press and immediately release the start button (3) to use the servoassisted engine starting function. When you press the button (3) the starter motor operates automatically for a MAX time determined by engine temperature. The system disengages the starter motor as soon as the engine starts. If the engine fails to start, wait at least 2 seconds before pressing the start button (3) again. Allow the engine to start on its own, without turning the throttle twistgrip
thanks for the reply guys. However mine doesnt have the servo start, i just checked the log book and its in fact a 2005 model that has been registered in 2006, therefore on a 56 plate. I can also check the CPS, is there anything in particular i should look for when doing so? cheers Alex
With this model everyone develops their "knack" which works for them. From cold the manual states to open the fast idle full then crank. Hot starting above 23 degrees is just to hit the starter, no fast idle, no throttle.
As Stated, this seems to be specific to each bike as to the "knack" for starting! Why?? My 05 749 starts with 1 push of the button every time, no throttle or cold start lever no matter the weather. Lucky I guess for me. If i do touch any of these then starting is a defo no go!! These bikes do take a pounding on start up and 15-20 minutes riding sometimes may not be enough to sufficiently recharge the battery enough. Voltage is ok - mine generally is between 11.9 & 12.1v, but it really needs the amps to turn these buggers over. Strong fuel smell may be over fueling and it maybe worth having a TPS reset if not done already. Cheers, Dave.
i usually find absolutely no fast idle hot or cold works well, just a tiny tiny amount of throttle. however its just this 'in between' stage that starting is a problem. then flooding ensue's :Shifty:
I seem to have the knack starting from cold, can catch it everytime. I may and the TPS looked at and also the CPS. I seem to get the smell of gas very quickly when trying/failing to start it. And very soon after that you can also see petrol coming from first link in the rear cylinder header pipe. battery voltage when turning the key is always around 12v, usually 12.3v and as soon as the bike fires it jumps straight back to 14.1v
Just another thought...and i maybe wrong here (and someone please tell me if I'm talking crap! :Bag, but are your breather/overflow pipes from the fuel tank ok? Blocked or split? Could this cause over fueling due to excessive pressure or vacuum? These will start under the key guard on the front of the tank. Dave.
Check your plugs and see if they are of the correct type. If you are running Iridium then read this Avanti Race Parts - Ducati Parts and Accessories for Road and Race Motorcycles. Services for Ducati Motorcycles. Race prep, Paintwork, ECU Repairs, Anodising and more! It sounds like TPS may be a good place to start. Also try checking the error codes to see if they are indicating anything relating to the stick coils. Perhaps try swapping them from front cylinder to rear. While your there check the stick coil wells for water.
I think this is unlikely, the fuel pump provides the pressure via a closed loop system, any excess fuel is returned to the tank. If the breather was blocked you'd get a vacuum which may cause fuel starvation. Sounds like sparks to me. But again, I could be wrong too
One random thought, does your engine temperature readout seem OK? It should initially flash until i9t gets to 46 degrees then top out at around 70 to 80.
Welcome to the forum. Its funny how problems go around in circles. When I bought mine "hot start problem" was the biggest issue and now it seems to have resurfaced with a few. Plenty of threads about on this but it will most likely be your earth strap needing doing (a 6 quid fix so try first - plenty on here about it). Mine did this when I bought mine and would leave me stranded until it decided it wanted to go. Not funny when your at a petrol station and the bugger wont start again... Oh and if you have had the battery off you will need to reset the TPS so have a look under Free Diagnostic Software on here and read up. Let us know how you get on.
thanks for all the replys guys, Took the bike to have the TPS reset. However you say if i change the battery it needs to be done again? this is bad news because i have changed the battery since. Its a funny one this, i went back to the bike and started it half a dozen times at the weekend, let it run up to temperature and then cool for a while then tried starting it again and every time it fired up no problem. Things i had done since i last posted are check all the electrical connections and cleaned them, the starter lead was full of like white slimey stuff and the connection cap had slid down the lead a bit leaving it exposed. Not sure how much of a difference this would make, anyway i cleaned it up and reattached it. One thing DMC did notice when i took it to them for the TPS is that the earth lead from the battery to the cylinder was a none standard part, and he indicated that the bike may have had wiring issues in the past! Or could this be this mod i keep reading about??? I have also reduce the thickness of the shim between the CPS and crank case. Not sure whether this has helped or its a combination of a number of things i have done to the bike but at the moment everything seems good..... I plan to change the coil packs because apparently the 05 and earlier coil packs are prone to corrosion and just aren't as robust as the newer bikes. I am lead to believe that the 1098/898 coil pack will fit and they are the same as the 06 onwards 749/999 coil packs? can anybody confirm this? I have also had a spark plug socket modded at work so i can get the damn things out!! so i will check the sparks etc tonight or tomorrow. does anybody have any tips on checking if the coil packs are goosed or is it just a case of 'replace them anyway'? Any way i am working my through a number of things at the moment, even though the bike seems to be behaving itself!! I just don't want to get to the TT in a couple of weeks and get left stranded at creg-ne-ba with a very un-impressed missus....:Grumpy:
make sure you carry a good tool kit, a spare fuel pump relay and fuses and leave it alone. you will know if you have a bad coil as it will run like crap. yes the tps should be reset but dont worry too much about it. get yourself the leads and download jpdiag. its easy. where did you take it for the info on the wiring? yes it does sound like you have had the earth strap done already. oh and if you cleaned the white grease off the starter you need to get yourself some dielectric grease as it is there to protect the starter from corrosion which leads to starting issues. use it for a week heaviky and see if your prob appears. it will have just been the earth strap i bet. honestly, may have just needed a clean and tighten.
oh and what shim did you put in the cps? i just replaced my cps and the min air gap in the manual is .75mm which was set correctly with the oem steel shim but i had to put a thicker shim after doing the sensor as i put a non oem magnetti marelli part in.
yeah, i am going to take a few bits and pieces. When the bike is running it runs smooth as anything. Pulled the plug on the rear cylinder last night and it looked a bit coked (see image below) up but not toooo bad. so i have ordered too new plugs (NGK CR9EB) for good measure anyway. oh and also the number on the side of the plug is cr9e, i believe the ones i should have are cr9eb? dont want to go for iridium yet after reading the article on avanti ducati. ALSO, the plug gap was around 1mm! so i am hopefully eliminating this variable by buying plugs with correct gaps! I took it to DMC in preston, a ducati specialist. RE the earth strap mod, am i correct in thinking this is an additional earth lead going from the -ve terminal on the battery to the bolt on the starter motor? The shim wasn't steel, it was gold, so brass maybe? but it was up at 1mm thickness. with a bit of wet and dry i took it down to around 0.8mm and re-fitted.
Yep earth wire mod is as you say and the CPS shim is brass. You might want to take it down some more maybe to .5mm. I took mine right out.
