A Blow To Dickensian Employers

Discussion in 'Speakers Corner' started by bradders, Jan 6, 2017.

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  1. Interesting stuff. One of the expected government moves after leaving the EU is that a lot of workers rights stuff will disappear.
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  2. Not sure that they will, there aren't much left to take in respect of this case. Maybe revoke the max 48hr week (which many truckers and others want) but not much else.

    Zero hours next :)
  3. It's a long time since I signed one but is the working week still 48 hours unless you sign a waiver?
  4. I believe so, but been 4 yrs since I waived that right (as we were all encouraged to do ;) )
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  5. There was an interesting Radio 4 programme this morning, hosted by a former economist under George Osborne. He interviewed some people in a Brexit-voting industrial town that has lost factory jobs to low cost labour in Mexico.

    These workers voted Brexit after a factory closure to allow relocation to Mexico. Incredibly, HR offered them jobs in Mexico if they relocate. Nobody did, though they took temporary pleasure in wearing Sombreros on the shop floor!

    Their reason for voting Brexit was not immigration. It was worker rights protection, or the effective lack of it.

    The stronger employment protection rights in large EU economies like Germany, Italy, France and Spain mean effectively that the easy target factories for closure in the EU are the UK located ones. Consultation periods for factory closures have reduced from 90 days to 45 days in U.K. An equivalent factory in other EU countries might take two years to close.

    So much for worker protection from the EU!
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  6. Who treated who like dirt?
    These "adults" voluntarily chose to work for someone offering employment,presumably they were able to read the terms and conditions before they accepted the job?
    Some of the said employees,(I'd put money it was a very small minority),decided they did not like the conditions and,instead of heading for the gate at the top of the yard and giving the Gaffer a cheery wave on the way to their new and better job,took the company to court and got the conditions changed.
    This will result in several things.
    Those employees who took the job on,and were happy with the terms and conditions,will be pissed off that the minority have upset the apple cart.
    Customers will pay more,and some will go elsewhere.
    Worst case scenario,the company will close and everyone will be out of work.
    As my old mum would say,a classic case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
    Not often I disagree with you,Bradders,but I believe that if you take a job,you accept the conditions.If you don't like it,jack and find another job.Even better,if you think you can do better start your own company and see how you get on trying to make it a success with your own business model.
    This isn't the Brexit thread,but these twats are the same type that voted remain: "I'm not happy,I can't be arsed to make an effort to make myself happy,I'm going to make someone else pay for my unhappiness".
    People who put their their own money and effort into starting and running a business should not be dictated to by people too lazy to do the same.
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  7. People should have rights to a fair wage, for a fair days work, with fair terms of employment. They should have the right to some form of sick pay. Some form of holiday pay. Some form of guarantee of what they will earn. Equally, in return, they should pay the taxes due as should the employer.

    Anything less is shameful. :)
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  8. Booooo! Hissssss!
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  9. Did these people voluntarily apply to work for the company knowing the terms and conditions?
    No one has a right to anything except what the employer stated was on offer.
    As long as they get what was agreed at the start they have nothing to moan about
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  10. If someone is ill, I take it you expect them to curl up and die in a ditch then?

    These aren't self employed plumbers taking 80k cash home and declaring 20k...they are below min wage, no guarantee people who perform a service and that industry gets away with treating them life poorhouse workers. I'm amazed you think its ok that an employer should be able to offer NO rights to an employee. Utterly amazed.

    I take it you can tell drivers to not PPE when they do deliveries, or use taco or do other things that are designed to give them welfare in their role...
  11. Personally, every job I have had, I was never forced into it and I never worked for an employer without knowing their terms and conditions in advance, even the shit ones.
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  12. You are not answering the question Bradders...
    Did these people voluntarily apply to work for the company knowing the terms and conditions?
    but I will answer yours:
    If someone is ill, I take it you expect them to curl up and die in a ditch then?
    No,I don't,and my company,like all others,pays large amounts of corporate tax which goes towards emergency services,the NHS,etc etc the ensure that in this civilised country it doesn't happen.These taxes are over and above those I pay as an individual,it is what the company pays for the privilege of existing,employing people,and hopefully giving me a return on my investment and the 24 years of seven day working that I VOLUNTARILY CHOSE to pay to make the company successful.
    I take it you can tell drivers to not PPE when they do deliveries, or use taco or do other things that are designed to give them welfare in their role.
    All my guys are issued with full PPE kit,gloves,company clothing,winter hi-viz jackets,woolly hats,etc,etc.Some of it is a legal requirement,(very little),a lot is because I like my guys to have as good a working life as possible.They also receive tachograph training,their records are analysed every four weeks and if they need a sub due to unforeseen personal problems they only have to ask.None of the not-legally-required extras are written in their contract,so they can't beat me over the head if they don't get them.
    And none of the above has anything whatsoever to do with taking on a job without reading the terms and conditions and then bleating about it...there's nothing Dickensian about it,it's a personal responsibility to make sure you like the job you are applying for.
    IF NOBODY was willing to work for the Deliveroos/Amazons etc,they would not exist.But people do work for them,and they make lots of money,and plenty of people even on here take advantage of their services.
    Fyi my guys are a mix of employed full time night drivers,self-employed ad-hoc who have other clients,and zero hours but on the cards.They choose their status to suit their circumstances and what they want to get out of life,and would be horrified if someone came into our yard and started telling them they had to be something they don't want to be.
    When I was a London despatch rider in the late Seventies,I had no job security,no rights,nothing.I took the job on knowing I might earn £600 a week or sweet F.A.
    10.30 one morning I called in empty from the City and the controller told me to stand by or go and get a sandwich as he was not going to give me ANOTHER job for a while.(open channel radio,everyone could hear everything).
    There was bloody uproar,some geezer who lived in East Ham screaming blue murder that he had called in at 09.00 and how come Seven Zero,(yours truly),had already completed a job/why wasn't he given it?.
    The controller told them all to pipe down,and explained that Seven Zero,although living in Stevenage,had called in from Mill Hill on the car channel at 05.30,the car guys had immediately given him a job from Alan Day Porsche to deliver Portsmouth for cash,and he then picked up Sunbury and then a Feltham to go to the City on account,all done and dusted,and that the controller KNEW when East Ham boy called in he was still scratching his nuts in bed at his mums house...
    Moral of the story,if you take on a job,do the job.
    You will get out of it what you put in,and if you don't like it jack it in and find something that does suit you.
    #13 Lightning_650, Jan 7, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  13. She now can get sickpay & a couple of weeks holiday pay a year, oh and minimum wage. Anyone decrying those things is just a parasitic management pleb. She doesn't get too choose what work or who she is delivering drugs too in london. But now she at least has some minimal level of assurance that the company cannot treat her as a disposable item.

    I won't even read the long winded procrastinations of lightning because its worthless drivel (I glanced over the 1st post). Globalization has kept professionals in good wage brackets & CEO into orbital spheres of earnings. And the workers on the shop floor either have no increase or are now having there jobs exported abroad which means no job & stress. Allowing the company to reduce or release themselves from any pension entitlements in the longterm. And proceeds to enslave a new demographic in another nation. I'm sure the suicide nets around factories in china are a good thing in the eyes of some really deranged posters ideals.
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  14. I want to withdraw my 'worthless drivel' comment it is rude. There was no need to be so harsh, I will understand if others reply to my remarks or comments in the future with such indignation. It's just that I am a zero-hour worker & though I get well over 40hours a week work. I don't get sick pay & the only holiday pay I get is actually withdrawn & then taxed out of my wages & paid back to me too obfisticate anyone looking into the agency I work for. Contrarian or not, I don't get how people can attack employees gaining of such basic levels of pay/rights. Unfair practises in business need to be shown up for what they are and stamped out. irrigardless of a signed contract of employment.
  15. Your quoted post above proves, in a nutshell, how and why you are a complete muppet. The discussion, the concept, the case before the tribunal, the ruling, are all so far over your head you simply do not realise.

    You must be a joy to work for.
  16. Yet factually accurate.
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  17. 'Kinell love.

    I think you've had enough internet for one night.
    #18 1976dc, Jan 7, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2017
  18. Why? Whose expectations?
    The Government has made it perfectly clear, repeatedly, that established EU law to which the UK is signatory at the moment of withdrawal would be imported wholesale onto the UK statute and from there each individual piece of legislation debated by Parliament and either adapted, repealed or retained according to the democratic will of the House. What, precisely, is wrong with that? It would confer vastly greater democratic accountability onto the body of legislation to which we are subject than we have at present.
    #19 Gimlet, Jan 7, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
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  19. £80k a year plumber...not round here...they won't get of our bed for that.
    Try double.
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