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Clutch Push Rod Needle Bearing Fitment

Discussion in 'Technical Help' started by Pete W, Jun 26, 2019.

  1. Hi, as you can see on the photo my old pushrod (top) was knackered by a collapsed needle bearing. I finally got the bugger out but the new bearing seems a bit 'loose' on the new rod (both from Ducati). I don't want to insert the new needle bearing in the shaft only to have to spend hours getting it out again - do you reckon it could it possible tighten up a bit after it's inserted in the shaft?
    I was wondering about getting a similar sized bearing (not from Ducati) and seeing whether it's any different/better.
    The Oil Seal (also from Ducati) is very tight on the new rod, but will presumably loosen up a bit because of course it's rubber.
    Cheers Pete

    Clutch push rods.jpg
     
  2. I'm surprised no-one has had this issue before because many people must have changed pushrods over the years and renewed the needle bearing at the same time. But anyway I ordered another needle bearing from 'SimplyBearings' - they have great prices and are very quick - next thing is to see if there's a difference between the two.
     
  3. Can't see any post from Denzil about this - lots of other interesting stuff but I couldn't find this 'loose' needle bearing/clutch rod issue that I'm having.
    Has anyone else had a similar problem? Cheers
     
  4. My own experience is the opposite, that the rod tends to come out along with the pressure plate.
    As a result, I don't remember if the rod is symmetrical. Maybe you could try turning it end for end??
     
  5. Thanks for the reply, but no the rod isn't the same each end. Actually it's not the bearing in the pressure plate I'm talking about (which I'm also replacing) it's the small needle bearing that fits inside the main shaft (bottom left on the photo) - the bearing fits tight in the shaft as it should but the rod seems a bit loose going through it. Cheers though
     
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  6. Ah yes, sorry, didn’t read it properly.
    Your new rod doesn’t look to be beautifully machined. Maybe it’s meant to be a loose fit and to contain any whipping in the rod rather than to be constantly in contact.
     
  7. It looks like it will do exactly the same as the old one in time. Being such a sloppy fit is normally considered bad practice but maybe it is more for rough location as Old Rider suggested?
     
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  8. The push rod normal actuation is longitudinal, the needle rollers in the bearing when fitted have an orientation which is longitudinal .i.e if the bearing was a snug fit on the push rod then the bearing rollers would not act as rollers when the push rod was actuated, they would wear the shaft. The needle roller can only be there to support/limit any bending in the clutch push rod when actuated.
     
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  9. Gotcha, makes sense now :upyeah:
     
  10. The push rod normal actuation is longitudinal, the needle rollers in the bearing when fitted have an orientation which is longitudinal .i.e if the bearing was a snug fit on the push rod then the bearing rollers would not act as rollers when the push rod was actuated, they would wear the shaft. The needle roller can only be there to support/limit any bending in the clutch push rod when actuated.

    That makes great sense I never considered the 'longitudinal' movement of the rod at all - thanks! The good thing about the forum is you get a different way of looking at things rather than getting bogged down or going down the wrong route. Cheers again.
    By the way, the '3rd party' needle bearing from 'SimplyBearings' cost a couple of quid and was exactly the same fit as the Ducati one.
     
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  11. All parts bought from dealer and badged as such carry a premium, once you know the equivalent part you can always get them cheaper (if you so choose) - it's just knowing the equivalent, google is your friend but always beware of dodgy info too :upyeah:
    I'd always recommend Ducati branded oil filters for instance
     
  12. Indeed, the rod isn't a tight fit in the bearing as it needs to slide, the oil seal is the important bit as it keeps the oil inside the the shaft and therefore the bearing.

    Tip; if you fit the oil seal in backwards ('lip' should point away from the clutch) the oil will leak through it and into your clutch causing it to slip and also causing a big cloud of smoke at startup from the oil that drips out of the clutch housing and onto your exhaust - don't ask me how I know... :blush:

    The bearing can be a swine to remove, I had to dremel one out, but easy enough to re-fit and cheap enough too if you buy from a bearing supplier, don't know what Ducati charge?
     
  13. Thanks for that, also the tip about the oil seal. I got the bearing out by breaking the inner cage, removing that, then attacking the remaining outer cage carefully with a hammer and small screwdriver until there was something to grab hold of, (I couldn't knock it out from the other side as some people have suggested).
    Actually Ducati don't charge much for the needle bearing and oil seal, I got them from "InMoto" in Croydon for about £6 (for both), plus a fiver postage - so not bad at all. The aftermarket needle bearing from 'SimplyBearings' was also good and cost about £3 with free postage.
    This one:
    https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p...ith-Two-Open-Ends-8x12x10mm/product_info.html
    Cheers, Pete
     
  14. Pete, the issue I had on my 999 was the clutch push rod spinning which rotated the piston in the slave cylinder and cooked the slave's seals. Symptoms were eventually odd metallic grey clutch fluid and a leak of black fluid from the slave, but only after nursing a deteriorating and unreliable clutch for a couple weeks and a couple of "breakdowns". I ended up fitting an anti spin kit with a new slave and the new pushrod with a pin through it as well as servicing the master with new seals and piston.
    Remember for a needle roller there has to be some play and the push rod does move laterally through the gear box as the clutch is used. Also all bearings are made to common standards and the bearing Ducati fit is specced for that application, that spec incudes fit tolerances, running tolerances, bearing load, operating speed and temperature; a replacement with an exact equivalent bearing made by another reputable bearing manufacturer is ok, a replacement with one which is similar size but to a different spec is not. Unless you get a bearing ref number match for the equivalent spend the extra few quid and get the OEM one, if nothing else for piece of mind.
     
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  15. Brilliant advice, thanks. Sadly I'm stuck with the old type of rod for now (I just bought one new from Ducati!) and the old style of slave too but I'm replacing all the bearings and seals so let's hope for the best in terms of not spinning. If further problems crop up then I think it's time for a new style rod and an Oberon slave - but that's for later. I'm also trying a 'Quad ring' instead of the original slave piston seal.
    Pete
     
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