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Ducatii 996 Possible Major Engine Failure.. Any Advise Please.

Discussion in 'Technical Help' started by Nick Little, Aug 10, 2015.

  1. I had just finished rebuilding the flywheel with a new sprag clutch on my 1999 996.
    everything refitted. new oil and coolant. It ran beautifully on its paddock stand, no oil or water leaks.
    temp perfect oil light off so all looking good for a test ride.

    took her out and then then the red light started flickering on the dash.

    I turn back for home and heard a rattling from the left side of the bike and then it suddenly locked up the rear wheel.
    fortunately at 40 mile an hour, and I was quick on the clutch
    water temp all ok.
    now it wont crank over at all. locked... my suspicions are the flywheel nut came loose?
    but what my major concern is, is why was the oil light flickering and then came on just before the lock up?. is there some connection between that and the alternator side of the bike?
    or has the engine just decided to coincidentally seize on me?

    Any help would be appreciated

    Nick
     
    #1 Nick Little, Aug 10, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2015
  2. Is there oil and water still in it
    would be my first question. If so then pull the alternator cover off and I'm sure your first guess would be correct.
    Never had the alternator nut come loose but I'd guess the major parts, crank, rods, pistons, valves etc should all be ok. It'd just stall when it loses the spark.
    Also, pull the plugs out, stick it in gear and try spinning the rear wheel. That'll tell if it's proper bolloxed or just alternator.
     

  3. thanks 1037/
    my first route will be alternator cover off. AGAIN..

    no stall... full rear wheel lock up..

    what is strange was the flickering to on oil light?
    water level fine.. as soon as the light came on I put in a liter... no oil leaks at all?
     
  4. Well keep us informed on what you find. Sure more help will be along soon.
    I'm probably gonna make matters worse by asking if you know a worn sprag can be fixed for about £5 too.
     
  5. yep agreed
    the worn sprag was replaced and fitted with a new oem from ducati..
    a right pain when I was just prepping her for sale. :(
     
  6. Ah. I've had sprag trouble too. So long as it's not battered the flywheel etc by keep trying to start it you only need the spring replacing. And a 50mm fork seal spring is perfect for the job. Never had to buy a new sprag in 20 years of owning Ducatis. ;)
     
  7. sorry I didn't explain well.. I replaced with a new sprag. rebuilt the bike it ran fine as mentioned in my initial post and now, after testing, the lock up occurred.

    the trouble is now, after the repair,
    and the red oil light? is that a coincidence or linked in someway?
    thanks
     
  8. Hi all,
    Any other input.
    most appreciated... thx
     
  9. Did you rebuild the whole engine or just change the sprag clutch. It sounds like you could have big end failure or there is a plug in the crank web that if it comes loose can cause a lack of oil pressure, that's assuming you have no major oil leaks and all was rebuilt as it should be.

    The sprag clutch may or may not be related to you present problem hence my comment above, you may need to look more widely. It may even be something as simple as a failing oil pressure sensor and or the flywheel nut coming loose or some other coincidental problem, did you loctite the flywheel nut and torque it correctly? I have had a flywheel nut come loose although it did not come undone completely and that just made a clunking sound when the engine was turned over by hand. Some of the 748-9** engines suffer from main bearing, and less so, big end failure and I have had a main bearing go on a 748R engine with just 4,000 miles on the clock. On stripping it was also found that the big ends were almost gone as well.

    No doubt others could give you some more suggestions but these are just a few things that spring to mind that you might want to check out.

    If it's a main bearing failure usually the alternator side casing will crack and this of course, if you lost enough oil, would cause the oil light to come on.
     
  10. thanks for the input..

    thx for the reply.
    just replaced a broken sprag.

    here's an update.. not looking promising.

    put bike on paddock stand in 6th gear.. engine will not rotate from the wheel.. Solid!!

    drained oil and water before removing alternator cover..
    oil filter mesh has metal particles.. see pic. 2015-08-11 11.07.18_resized.jpg

    removed alternator cover hoping to see something locking the engine. Nothing looking wrong here visually. nut is still tight. No movement on the fly wheel. no damage to cover or alternator. no water in drained oil or vice versa.
    2015-08-11 11.04.35_resized.jpg

    plugs now out.. still wont turn over..
    I think its big trouble???

    engine made light rattling on the left hand side so I suspected wrongly the above area. where to look next? without engine out.?? uffff.

    just so strange ran perfectly on paddock stand. no red lights.. yet underload, riding it all kicked off within 3 miles
    I pray its nothing super major.

    oh by the way.. new clutch plates as well. don't think anything to do with that tho?

    thx in advance
     
    #10 Nick Little, Aug 11, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2015
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  11. Are the cam belts intact?
     
  12. Could be so many things as suggested, but going by symptoms it could be that one or both big ends have failed suddenly as if they have been wearing out gradually they don't usually seize a crank solid unless engine pushed really hard plus main bearings usually rumble/develop play rather than seize as they are conventional bearings not shells. Causes for a sudden oil pressure loss again could be due to several reasons but crank oil gallery plug unwinding (as said) is quite common and probably the most likely. Although often criticised for having greater than ideal clearance, oil pump failures are virtually unheard of and almost the same for pressure relief valve.
     
  13. I'm presuming you pushed it home in neutral ruling most the clutch and gearbox out as potential problems.
    As said check the belts. Mine still ran when a belt snapped though just had no power.
    Might be time to become a real Ducati owner and split the engine for a good look inside.
    Be an interesting one this.
     
  14. If you can move the flywheel up and down then you may well have broken a main bearing. The bearings are in a plastic cage and if they break up and roll out I guess you could have one jam the crankshaft or get between the crank and the crankcase and jam it. They can make a bit of a mess when the balls are free to fall into the crank and crankcase area.

    Judging by the metal floating about in the oil it looks like something has broken (up). Certainly further investigation is needed and possibly it is time to remove the heads and barrels and look into the crankcase to see if you can see anything amiss or seized. Many possibilities have been covered but to add one more item a ring could have gone and done some damage, although unlikely.
     
  15. ^ op said no movement on flywheel
     
  16. I mentioned this to indicate what main bearing failure might feel like, if you have not experienced it before, and it's always worth a check. If the jamming is caused by something jamming the crank that is in between the crank and the crankcase there still is\may be the possibility of main bearing failure, which possibly could just be starting, or certainly worth a check. No doubt deeper inspection might prove what the problem is\might be.
     
    #16 Red998, Aug 11, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2015
  17. I have a 916sp and it dropped a valve. The engine locked up on that big holes in the piston. That metal could be bits of piston and valve.
    Whatever it is you are going to have to strip it down to find out
     
  18. Thanks everyone for your inputs.
    Don't we just hate when you make the bike look awesome this happens. Sods law.
    Anyhow.
    An update....
    I'm a pro motogp photographer. Nick Little | Facebook
    Sorry to link this but I just wanted to let u know a little about me.

    Spoke to one of my Ducati mecánic mates and showed him the filtered oil. Uggg. I thought I had a clue of things.
    He thinks a piston has locked up. How?
    Flickering red light to full red in seconds is sudden oil blockage. How?
    Well it might have been my fault when rebuilding the sprag . .. too much liquid gasket/silicon seal for the alternator cover.
    He found some in the oil. He thinks it blocked up an oil galley, slowly but surely. And overheated a piston/big end bearing....
    It happens fast he said when oil suddenly stops. No overheating. Just lock up. The shavings are not magnetic so has kinda diagnosed that.. broken timing belts won't give red flickering... they just break the engine he said.
    Bad luck as there was no way to stop this happening in 30 seconds.
    Bike trailered home. I'm not pushing in spain sun.
    Anyhow. I'm gonna strip her apart
    And take pics for all to see.
    It's not over yet.
    WANTED. 996, 998, LOOKING AT 1098 ENGINE.... for a project.
    Please all keep up the ideas.
    I'm not ready to pull it apart fully just yet. I wanted to sell her as I have another.
    Very choked
    Thanks
     
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  19. Fly wheel no movement at all
     
  20. Yes . Should be entertained with that.
     
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