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Is This S4r Exhaust System Titanium Or Stainless?

Discussion in 'Monster' started by Zhed46, Jun 22, 2020.

  1. I recently bought a system from a guy on eBay which was advertised as titanium but I am not convinced that it is.

    I was primarily interested in the Termi end can only as it turns out the downpipes are for a testeretta engine not the desmoquattro, but I was going to sell the downpipes on.

    Googling reveals that the only real world way to tell the difference between Ti and SS is by applying a grinder to see if it sparks white (Ti) or yellow (steel), but I can't do that without damaging it and I can't do that if I want to return it for a refund (the buyer is an utter tosser so there is little point in asking him if he agrees to me doing that).

    Applying a magnet is a bit hit and miss because some SS alloys are non-magnetic. The downpipes I was sold are either non or only very weakly magnetic but SS parts I have fitted to other bikes and hanging around my workshop are all magnetic to some extent, so this is not definitive.

    I have googled the part numbers but this only throws up links to eBay ads for OE S4R downpipes, which obviously leans in favour of the part I was sold being made from SS.

    This guy is an absolute a*se so if it isn't Ti, saying "it looks like steel to me" isn't going to cut it with him (or Paypal, if I need to make a claim).

    The part numbers are:

    572 1 142 1C
    DUCATI E3

    ZDM E10

    41R 0358018 (or maybe L41R 0358016 as the "L" might be a "4" and the final "8" might be a "6"). Please see pics (to follow).

    Thanks.
    1AD925F6-D5DE-46A1-8899-CC9FDAA09048.png D79D6106-3756-47DD-8175-8D4181D8F6AC.png 057AB41B-9253-4200-9B4D-F3E304CB588D.jpeg
     
    #1 Zhed46, Jun 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
  2. Titanium goes a brilliant electric blue when heated, stainless goes golden brown IIRC. Andy
     
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  3. That’s my understanding too but I need something definitive as he’s being a real dickhead about everything and I also can’t really base a PayPal claim on “it doesn’t look/feel/smell like Ti”. Even if/when it turns out to be OE, I’ll probably also need confirmation the OE kit isn’t Ti because although any idiot knows an OE part isn’t going to be Ti, firstly, this guy is indisputably an idiot and secondly, the PayPal people are not going to know that info.

    View attachment 207885
     
    #3 Zhed46, Jun 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
  4. Weight is the obvious difference. Steel 7.8 kg per cubic decimetre, titanium 4.5 kg per cubic decimetre.
     
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  5. That’s true but there’s no way for me to measure that or compare the two systems as the one fitted to my bikes at the moment doesn’t have a catalytic convertor.

    Plus, the guy is a real piece of work so though I’m 90% certain it’s an OE part made of steel, unless I have definitive evidence of that he’s not going to settle and PayPal won’t be able to determine the claim either.
     
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  7. @Zhed46 I use a couple of UK based laboratories for work purposes, usually to check that things are made of what they claim to be made of. Tomorrow I can make enquiries to check if they can test the downpipes presuming you can spare those for testing. I can also check how they to test so you know in advance if there is likely to be any damage other than testing costs. Let me know if you would like me to look in to this.
     
    #7 dukesox, Jun 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
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  8. Surely you just touch the inside of the header with a Dremel and then at least you know. Pictures are deceptive but doesn't look like any Ti I have ever seen.
     
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  9. Email Ducati at [email protected] and give them the part number and ask - you will then have the definitive answer on an email from Ducati as evidence.
     
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  10. Found this - 2 and 3 might help. For a really strong magnet get a magnetic kitchen cupboard catch and break it open, the little square magnets inside are really strong - dont use them via the metal tabs that stick out, break them out of the plastic casing and double them up and use that

    https://www.screwfix.com/p/magnetic-cabinet-catches-white-65-x-20mm-10-pack/59279

    1. First — buy a little bit of stainless 316 and stainless 304 — can be anything really, — small length of small diameter round will do. Also buy a little piece of aluminum. Then buy a small piece of regular mild steel.
    2. Get a very strong magnet. Try it on the steel first— it should be strongly adhesive. Then try it on the 304 stainless — it will likely exhibit attraction but less than with steel. Then move on to the stainless 316 — it should have only the faintest bit of attraction if any. Finally, try it on the aluminum — there should be absolutely no discernible attraction at all.
    3. Next, try the magnet on the titanium. It should exhibit the same level of attraction as the aluminum — i.e. none. If there is any discernible attraction, the material is not titanium.
     
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  11. Looking at the colour of it I would say it's steel. Titanium tends to keep more grey/blue colour. Also, as the stainless used on these exhausts is not of the highest grade then unless polished it will usually have spots of rust, a titanium exhaust will not rust in my experience.Usually have a much better and neater quality of welding as well.
     
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  12. I salvaged a really powerful magnet from an old Philips Sonicare toothbrush.
     
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  13. Just had a look through the Ducati accessories book for 2007. There are no systems shown which are listed as titanium for the S4R or any other model of monster. Your photos show what looks like the "racing tailpipe with carbon sleeve and removable DB killer" part no. 96116707B.
    15928613088727630626448268895773.jpg It may possibly have a titanium end cap but no mention of it.
     
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  14. I've found PayPal to take a while but in the event of a refund, provided you return it to the seller, they will side with you the buyer. eBay are the same, just quicker.
     
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  15. Surely a ti system wouldn’t have a cat?
    Looks factory standard to me, with Temi slip on. ( not that it helps your dilemma)
     
    #15 Itsamonster, Jun 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
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  16. Thanks, that's exactly what I thought.

    Hopefully I should be speaking to someone at a dealership tomorrow and I have also asked the Ducati indi guy I usually take my bike to if he can find out for me, but any and all other info is appreciated
     
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  17. That's true but I have found that PP/eBay's claims "adjudicators" are not well trained in contract law and they are also unlikely to know much about motorbike parts. I need to make sure I have the evidence nailed on as the guy is not only very difficult to deal with, he is also dishonest as there's no way he has made a simple mistake - he was in his 50s, with an extremely impressive man cave/workshop that looked like Iron Man's living room, with at least 2 single seater race cars (poss Formula Ford), the S4R and another bike into which he is swapping the S4R engine (hence the sale of the exhaust system). So it isn't as if he is some newbie who has made a genuine error. Plus he has blatantly lied about some of what we discussed with respect to why I wanted the system as he claims I told him I only wanted the end can, which is a bit silly trying to gaslight me like that as as we exchanged eBay messages and WhatsApps where I told him I want the end can for my "standard" S4R and the downpipes for my special, though a complicating factor is that I don't think they'll fit (though he claimed they will) but that was ok because of they didn't I planned to resell them her or on the Bay for a few hundred squids.

    My initial thought when I felt the weight was that it was steel and not Ti, plus the Ducati stamp rather than a Termi one rang alarm bells and I mentioned this to him at the time, after which he became very keen to bring an end to the the sort of chit chat you usually end up engaging in when buying bits from a fellow petrolhead (he claimed he had left the family dinner table and was in a rush to get back).

    However, I was prepared to give the benefit of the doubt and check it out properly later, plus at the time he seemed like a decent enough guy plus I have the PP/eBay protection to fall back on if necessary. Usually in situations like this people admit they have screwed up and do the decent thing, but this guy is something else, and also a bit odd and even obsessive tbh as he has been sending me these long and sarcastic borderline abusive screeds the past few days, and today he even sent me photos of his CCTV system! He seem to think that because I didn't say "hey this isn't titanium" when I collected it, he's in the clear. I meet a lot of people like him through my work, and tbh if you claimed that grass was green they'd demand that you provide lab results in triplicate as proof.

    I am happy to return the whole lot for a full refund or agree a part refund and I just return the pipes but keep the end can, but we are miles apart on that issue (FYI - the price of the full system plus end can was the same price as a new end can). Either is fine with me, and tbh I would actually welcome the chance to see if he is such a cocky keyboard warrior when he has to deal with me in person again rather than from behind a computer screen (in my experience, such people rarely are).
     
    #17 Zhed46, Jun 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
  18. Stating the obvious perhaps but, are there even Ti systems on the market that have all the baffles etc fitted, i thought that all Ti systems were decat and weight saving, noting that @Hughdg couldn't find one in the Ducati catalogue either you'd have to ask did Ducati even make a Ti system, if you can prove to Paypal that the manufacturer didn't make such a system you'll be sorted, you could call any main dealer and get the answer - better yet ask the seller to point it out to you at the same time..
     
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  19. Thanks for that Hugh. I somehow missed your post yesterday. That’s really useful info
     
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