I'm looking to ditch the aftermarket combined/intergrated brake & indicator light cluster in favor of the standard brake light and seperate external indicators. Partly because the aftermarket unit seems to have developed a fault in that it indicates way to fast, it started with just one side and now has filtered through so both indicators are blinking at to fast a rate! Maybe the internal resistors have fried? The other reason for reverting to the STD unit is because the visability is not great according to my mates when they are travelling behind me. I don't fancy a car up my chuff! Before I start looking to wire up these new indicators I just want to check if I will need to include a couple of load resistor / ballasts. These indicators came with the bike, from the last owner and have 12 LED's in each unit. I think they are Chinese although they look and feel nice quality. Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Actually found the spec for these indicators, maybe some info included that would answer if I need a load resistor / Ballast, when being fitted to the 1098? Description Condition: Brand new Package includes: 2 pcs of turn signals / side marker Lens size: L 2" x W 1 1/4" (5 x 3cm) Total length: 3 1/2" (9cm) Color: Black Lens Color: Smoke Light Color: Amber Voltage: DC 12V Number of LED: 12 x2 Wattage: 2.16w x2 Thread diameter: 8mm Thread length: 5/8" (1.5cm) Cable Length: 9 3/4" (25cm) Weight: 100g (0.22 lb) Material: Robust hard-anodised ABS housing & PC lens 2 wires connection system. Features: • Custom design, High quality Robust hard-anodised ABS housing. • Super Bright LED light provide maximum visibility & safety. • Top Quality LED with 50000 hours life expectancy. • Upgrade your old bike with this new Custom Design. • Waterproof & Weatherproof and 100% Rust Free. • Our LED light are guaranteed to be the highest quality. • Easy Installation. Fitment: • Universal fits most Motorcycle, Street Bike, Cruiser/Chopper with 8mm mounting bolts.
Load resistors are fairly cheap and pretty small. Personally I'd go trial and error. Whip the tail off, and test the lights, but looking at those, you'll need the resistors, which you'll need to wire in inside the tail anyway
@gremlyng I fitted Kellerman LEDs to my 1098 and they worked fine without load resistors. They will probably be Ok without resistors, providing your front indicators are the standard type. I changed my front mirrors for the DP performance type later, then got a fast flash with ignition on and normal with engine running. Load resistors failed to help. If you want to match the standard load of the rear indicators then you'll need to simulate a 10W load these are 2.16, so I reckon about 20 Ohms (10W minimum load) per side, in parallel should do the job John
Thanks for your replies guys Actually, now thinking about it my last bike (ZX636R) had the standard front indicators and I added aftermarket LED indicators to the rear and didn't need to use load resistors to get them to flash at the correct speed. So from reading the info that 'Old Jock' left I only need to match the STD load if I also upgrade the front indicators? I'm planning on leaving the mirror indicators STD so hopfully these LED's I have for the rear are going to be plug and play. One of my main concerns in connecting them up without resisitors was the worry of burning out the indicators or worst possibly damaging the bikes wiring loom. :-/
@gremlyng I'd try a lash up without the resistor first to see how it goes, all resistors do is make heat and use power, I would only use them if it was necessary. As far as parallel - From the loom split the wire into 2 feeds one to load resistor one to the indicator, then have the same on the return, one coming from the indicator and one from the resistor. You need to do it that way to maintain the voltage to the indicator. If you just put the resistor in series, ie loom, resistor, indicator the resistor would drop the voltage to the LED indicator and not work. Remember if you do go to resistors get them rated for about 20 watts or more to make sure they won't burn out. 20 Ohm and 20W that makes it easy to remember You won't burn out the loom using LEDs, current is what creates heat and burns out wires, LEDs use less current a lot less. So if you can getaway with just using the LED indicators without the resistors you are placing less stress on the wiring not more. I believe the flash rate is governed now circuitry in the dash, in the old days it was a lot easier when there was a separate relay, that's why sometimes load resistors don't work, other factors like inductance come into play. However as the actual flash circuit in the dash is an unknown, you can't do much about it. I like this type, but they'd probably take a while to ship 2PCS 25W Wirewound Aluminum Housed Resistor, 0.1 ~ 1K OHM, 25 Watts, | eBay I'd test it though with cheapies first like these from Maplins Wirewound 10 Watt 22 Ohm Resistor | Maplin They only do 15 and 22 there, the ideal figure is around 18 Ohm. The lower the resistance the more current the resistor will pull. John
@Old Jock Thanks for all your help and advice, it's really appreciated. I'll try connecting the indicators up later to see if they blink at the correct speed. It's good peace of mind to know I'm not causing any damage in the process of trying them less resistor's I'll try to get my head around the finer details regarding the resistors should I need to go down that road, but hopfully I won't need them. Again thank you
@Old Jock My only fear now, and I hope it's not proven to be the case - The integrated indicator/brake light worked at the correct speed for months upon end and then suddenly one side sped up out of the blue, and then with days the other side followed in the same way. With what you mentioned regarding the dash circuitry - I'm now wondering if there is a problem with the dash unit which is sending out the flash rate. If that's gone wrong then it's going to be a big OUCH on the wallet I would have thought. :-# Hopefully it's the shonky integrated light unit on the rear that’s caused the issue!!
I reckon its more likely to have been your light rather than the dash. Sorry didn't mean to scare you I've abused mine fitting various indicators and resistors while playing around and the flasher has been fine. Don't sweat it. I have an integrated tail and flash unit on the rear as well but very rarely use it. I have a plug in the tail piece which by connecting/disconnecting gives me the option of having the rear light flash an indicator as well. Dash still fine!! As I've HIDs fitted I have an On/Off switch on the switchgear to disable the beams. What happened with mine was the stop light started to backfeed the sidelights, so when I hit the brakes the sidelights went on too. I really don't think they are all that well made. I stopped that with some diodes but it gives you an idea of how robust (or not if you like) they are John
Thanks again John, I've started to breathe again now I'm going to see if I can take the old integrated unit apart to check out the components inside, but one thing that really got me scratching my head is that something is rattling about inside! And it's not something tiny either, it sounds like a small bolt or nut or something. I think I’ll have to open it up just to find out what that is. HID - now there's a subject that intrigues me, I've often thought how it would be cool to get them fitted and to have both head lights on all the time as opposed to just the one until you engage full beam. I'm guessing with my limited electronics knowledge I’d really be opening a can of worms on that one!
Just as an FYI, the Ducati does not use a relay for the indicators, Fronts flash via the Clocks and rears via the ECU (on my 749).
I've got my hands on a pair of resistors. the manufacturer code is "Arcol" HS25 6R8J (25w 6.8R). The manufacturer recommends mounting them to a heat dissipating base, not sure how I can on the bike, do you think these will work/function ok? Also, when wiring them, in parallel, do you mean like this?
Yup that's parallel and exactly the way to wire them If I have my sums right 6.8 Ohm seems a bit on the low side, the lower you go the more current you draw (bad for the wires). At the standard 10W (Ass-uming 12V) you pull 0.83 Amps. With that resistance and the LED indicators (which can almost be neglected) you pull about 1.9 Amps and the resistor will have to dissipate 21 W (don't mount it to any plastic or the like). Personally if your dead set on resistors then start high and go lower rather than the other way around, well its what I'd do. Advanced Calculus it's not P - Power (Watts) V - Voltage (Volts) I - Current (Amps) R - Resistance (Ohms) P=VI V=IR So with a bit of jiggery pokery R=V^2/P & P=V^2/R So you can calculate the power if you know the resistance and the volts or the resistance if you know the power and the volts - simples. The current you can get from either of the first 2 formula pretty easily. Hope that helps John
Thanks John, In the end I bought a couple of resistors from a local bike shop, and they did the trick OEM rear light cluster in place and all working properly at last Next job Repack the Termi cans :-/
For anyone that may be interested I found out why the indicators within the aftermarket integrated tail light failed! I just had to open the thing up On the rear of the PCB board are meant to be two block resistors, both of which had fallen off and were rattling about inside the housing! Which explains why the one side starting to flash at a faster pace followed within days on the opposite side! they simply fell off within days of each other. The guy I bought the bike from said that it wasn't a cheapo Chinese unit, but I'm beginning to wonder if that was the case. Either way, the way that these resistors had fallen off was incredible I was shocked yet laughing at the same time. I'm guessing poor solder joints combined with the weight of these block resistors made them fall off, or simply too much vibration transmitted through the light made them rattle loose! So I have an aftermarket light unit that needs two resistors and a bit of glue to stick it back together I might fit it to my sons mountain bike for a laugh
My early attempts at making LED tail lights 10 years ago or so failed for the same reason. Soldered in components would rattle loose with vibration. I learned that a generous application of glue from a glue gun would bind everything in place and stop it rattling to bits.
No longer an issue for me hopfully, hope the proper Ducati rear light doesn't have any large resistors that are able to vibrate loose and eventually fall off. I guess it just goes to show that the aftermarket light's haven't seen the same amount of time in R&D.
