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Legalities Of Transferring A Frame Number...

Discussion in 'Technical Help' started by comfysofa, May 25, 2020.

  1. Not me but a question that was just asked on the z forum im on...a lad has just joined....and posted up this question...hes managed to crack his frame (in 2 places) how hes managed to do that i dont know (ive asked but had no answer back yet...!)

    Hes found a frame from a newer bike with no frame numbers on it and asked....

    So, assuming hes legit (no reason why not) somethings telling me you probably cant but, if he wanted to could he - if he did and you couldnt just do that (i assuming youd contact the dvla) for some sort of form and im guessing something to register it....some sort of tax....

    Educate me!....go!
     
  2. So lets say that he'd gone to a manufacturer, they'd have supplied a new frame together with his VIN and scrapped his old frame.

    Whether he is entitled to do it is a bit of a grey area - technically speaking no, however...
    It night be worth contacting kawasaki uk or going to them (probably better in person) and bring both frames.
    let them see that the virgin frame is virgin, and maybe just maybe they will have a frame stamping rig onsite - they then can destroy the old frame.

    In reality, he's probably better off just transferring the vins if he doesn't want hassle - providing his old frame hasn't been written off and registered such of course, and destroying the old frame. Problems arise when you've got two of the same vin in circulation or if the vin clearly shows up as something different, then you're into ringer territory or SVA and their points system and the whole age related plate rubbish, or a Q plate and a DVLA issued vin.


    What's the situation with the frame in that respect?
     
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  3. I dont see any issue..... IF he owns both frames and has both V5's, it is very doable, in fact it's little different from replacing a blown motor with another complete unit. DVLA may want to inspect the finished item, they may want to see receipts...but they may not. Basically they are lazy basts and do no more than they need to, at the moment that is very little. All he'd need to do is add the good existing engine to the replacement frame, tell DVLA of the number change, scrap or SORN the damaged frame and its done.

    IF he has no registration on the new frame, that's when it gets more difficult as it would need dating.To date it, he needs a dating certificate, to get that, he needs the numbers off the wheels, motor etc and they must be of the same age as the frame number...or it is messy.

    If the 'new' frame has no numbers, it could be nicked and likely is, it would need stamping by the police and almost certainly will go on a Q plate. It turns a valuable bike into a non valuable bike.
     
  4. Surely changing the frame no. will change the identity of the bike? with the bike taking the reg. no. & identity of the replacement frame?

    AFAIK stamping the old number onto another frame would be a legal no-no, although not sure about a new 'un-numbered' replacement? that said if you did it and it looked genuine, who's going to know...
     
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  5. So just to be clear:
    Frame 1 - the broken frame has VIN
    Frame 2 - the new frame has no VIN.

    We need to clarify if Frame 2 is a new frame that had never been stamped or whether it has had its VIN ground off.
     
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  6. If frame 2 is a new frame and not one with ground off numbers. Stamping the frame 1 number on frame 2 and destroying frame 1 (cut the headstock off) would mean no issues in the future should someone try and use frame 1

    Otherwise , as Sevs first response , it’s a grey area but not likely to cause an issue as long as you own the bike.
     
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  7. One for DVLA now that they have closed the local VROs
     
  8. i had this issue with my 2000 996 as i cracked the frame and had one replaced under guarantee.

    in Germany i just needed to take the old headstock ( removed from the frame) and the new frame with receipt and the number was re-stamped by by dealer and authorised by the local Tuv inspector
     
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  9. In the 70s Honda used to sell replacement frames as a spare part. They were un-numbered and the dealer was expected to re-stamp the frame number from the damaged frame onto the headstock of the new frame.

    Looking at the Stein Dinse website there is a part number 47010313CA for a replacement M900 frame. It is listed at 1.994,31 € though is unavailable at the moment. Probably something to do with not selling many, the cost of repairs making the bike a “Write off” since they aren't replaced under warranty any more.
     
    #10 Edge_of_Town, May 25, 2020
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  10. you can buy a blank panigale frame form the dealer, for little over 1000 euros
     
  11. The frame number on mine is stamped in dots .... as if someone had used a stencil and a centre-punch .
    A regular set of stamps isn't going to look anything like the same , and neither is an electric engraving tool .

    When it comes to gaming the system , appearance is everything .... it's all about the " theatre " .
    I'm merely shooting the breeze here .... probably just something I read in the Chicken Breeder's Gazette .

    PS - an elderly engineer once told me the correct name for a set of stamps ....
    .... can't for the life of me remember it now .
     
  12. Indeed, its a specific tool that is bolted down onto the area and it literally hammer punches the vin number on. We used to have one for our cars back in the days of yore - its a big weighty beast of a thing.
     
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  13. First Issue?
     
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  14. Could it be "Teep"?
     
  15. Back in 2002 or maybe 2003, my then 1995 900SS developed a cracked frame, as many of the carbed models did. I took this up with Ducati who after a few letters back and forth agreed to replace the frame. As long as the dealer was happy, which they were, they agreed that I do the work myself. I had to take the cracked frame to the dealer who exchanged it for the new one, the old frame was to be returned to Ducati and destroyed. However the new frame had no VIN on it and the dealer didn't have the equipment to stamp it. So they called the local Honda dealer who did. I took the frame round to them and they stamped it with the correct number while I waited. DVLA were never involved.
    As long as the original frame didn't go back into circulation there is no issue.
    If the OP's replacement frame has no VIN number and has never been previously registered (it won't have been without a number) I'd say go ahead. Get the replacement frame stamped, you might have to find a friendly dealer for that, destroy the old frame and rebuild the bike with the new one. As long as you are replacing like with like and the old frame is destroyed there is no need to involve DVLA. That's just asking for bureaucratic trouble.
     
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  16. I think I might keep the old headstock with the old number to prove the story if challenged though.
     
  17. Stick a church candle in it and keep it on the mantle piece :):upyeah:
     
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  18. Motorcycles must use an unmodified frame (original or new) and two other major components from the original vehicle as listed below:
    • forks
    • wheels
    • engine/gearbox
    If a second-hand frame is used the vehicle must pass a Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval (MSVA) test after which a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated
     
  19. Its done on a points system. You need a certain number of points to get an age related plate, otherwise you get a Q plate.

    its a bit of a minefield.
     
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