Sorry folks but I just have to get this off my chest: News today: James Maclean 23 yr old pro footballer for Sunderland has had death threats for refusing to wear a poppy last weekend. Now don't get me wrong I don't agree with death threats, lord knows I've had enough in my career but this BOY needs to be sent unpaid for a week to Flanders and Normandy for a lesson in reality. James, the only reason you are getting paid big money to play a game is because so many millions of brave (younger than you) men and women paid the ultimate price for our freedom to be able to do so.
Playing Devils Advocate here: MacLean is a Catholic from a Republican area of (London)Derry, so despite whatever non-Catholics from non-Republican areas of everywhere else might think, there is every chance that this lad doesn't identify with (or even agree with what it represents...) the poppy in any way, shape or form. Also there is an argument that part of what our forebears fought for was the freedom for people not to have to feel that the wearing of particular insignia is in anyway compulsory.... As I said, just playing at Devils Advocate, I wear a Poppy every year, even though my maternal grandfather rode a tank (but not with a Generals Rank) for the losing side in WW2.....
FWIW I agree, there seems to be an ugly body of opinion that anyone not following the accepted line is wrong and should be pilloried when in fact the freedoms that our ancestors fought and died for include the freedom to disagree and be disagreeable, there's a speech in the Michael Douglas Film "The American President" that addresses this point in a far more eloquent manner than I ever could, on the subject of burning the Stars and Stripes
He didnt have to wear a poppy as long as he made some sort of contribution to the charities that assist ex servicemen and women from the present as well as the past. Take it he is well aware that servicemen are being killed right now to protect his freedom to kick a football around. Does anybody think he did so? No? Would love to be proven wrong
How about him showing some respect for the Catholics who died fighting in the trenches in that case, even if he wont show any for the rest of the British forces. Sorry dont buy that explaination.
But again, given his antecedants, he may well feel antipathy towards the British armed forces & identify more with the Irish Republic than the UK (he turned down a chance to play for Northern Ireland, saying he would rather play for the Republic). Why would he make a contribution to the well being of those he might consider to be oppressors of his community? Just saying.... OK, losers of the military battle, arguably winners of the peace dividend.
And my Devils Advocacy continues. They died fighting for the British, not for the Irish. Remember in WW2 the Irish were neutral & the Swastika flew freely over the German Embassy. The wearing of Poppies in Ireland is contentious at the best of times, Enda Kenny (the Taoiseach) certainly didn't wear one at this years Remembrance Day ceremony in Dublin. And I repeat, why should anyone face public approbation for their refusal to wear a Poppy, when part of what the war (and of course the Cold War) was fought for was freedom of expression and freedom from oppression for holding views that the majority (or the authorities) might not agree with.
35,000 Irishmen died in WW1 20,000 from Ulster and 15,000 from southern Ireland fighting in the British forces, but I dont imagine James Mc Leanknows or cares.:frown: Not that WW2 has anything to do with this discussion ,but I imagine the Swastica flew over their embassies in every neutral country such as Switzerland and Portugal too.
As I said, They died fighting for Britain, not Ireland. As for what McLean knows or cares about, who knows? However, the Irish republicans that I have come across have always seemed exceedingly well informed about their history.
well said... and as ever, when you infect the waters with the deadly virus of religion you are entering into an ideological and moral cul de sac where logic, reason, common sense and ethics have no place. over 30,000 southern irish died in WW1, so what about showing respect for them? most southern irish were opposed to hitler, southern ireland was bombed several times by the nazis in WW2 despite its neutrality, over 250,000 irish worked in the UK and had ID cards...effectively helping the war effort... Let us not forget though that there were some who sympathised with the Catholic, Hitler (often labelled as an athiest which he certainly was not)... believing that the Nazi occupation would lead to a united ireland-but they dont like to talk about that..and conveniently forget that the Nazi policy wasnt one of unification of non germanic countries, it was of domination and annihilation... Weirmacht soldiers had to pledge an allegance to God, the Fuhrer and the Fatherland. Pope Pius was intrinsic to the destruction of jews and was a conduit between the catholic allies...particularly Spain and Italy...A great book is 'Hitlers Pope'...very eye opening and disturbing. Hitler quotes the bible numerous times in Mein Kampf and cites many, many passages that provided an inspiration to his warped ideals. This no knowing knob head footballer is a fkn turd, and if he hates us or hates it over here, where he makes his money, and wants to spread his religious ignorance and hate, and insult his British friends and football fans, then why dont you do one and fuck off back to ireland and put your head back up your, probably drunken, sweaty little arse. Shithouse.
Jesus fucking Christ, thoughtcrime is alive and well and living in Ducatiland. Yes, support the poppy appeal, honour the sacrifices of those that have gone before - I do. But sticking your jackbooted foot up someone's arse for feeling differently to you? What was it all for? /rant
There were even more than a few British who did too: British Fascists - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia National Fascisti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Imperial Fascist League - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia British Union of Fascists - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia National Socialist League - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
My maternal grandfather ran away from school to join up for WW1 (probably when they all thought it would be jolly jape), underaged. Did the whole thing in the trenches, came out a twice wounded captain (naturally remarkable that he came out of it at all - the odds can't have been good). Then because he was a professional soldier (not having being drafted) he was sent to ireland as part of the Black and Tans (and we know what they got up to). So I suppose I can have some sympathy for an Irishman not wearing a poppy. I just doubt that he knows anything much of the whole history. But then, what do I really know about him? Nada.
Something like one in ten of German tank crews survived WW2 - was your grandfather one of those? A horrible statistic, that.
