Did you buy the bike from an authorised Ducati dealer and does it have the correct number of service stamps from an authorised Ducati service agent ? If the answers to both questions are yes, Ducati UK are known to approve good will contributions to an out of warranty repair. If the answer to either question is no, then I am afraid you are reliant on good will from the place you bought it. Those bolts may not be removed for any routine servicing but it would be obvious when the belts are changed and again when the valve clearances are checked that they were loose. Is there any evidence in the service history that any remedial work had been carried out on the heads ? Andy
Sadly I believe your arguement will be with the Honda dealer but on the upside, your picture clearly shows that the 3 bolts that have disappeared are clearly marked to give visual evidence that they are still tight. If they were not, it should have been glaringly obvious to an experienced Ducati/specialist mechanic. If the Honda dealer did the service and belt change inhouse, I'm not sure that the experience would be there although you'd have to be really short sighted to miss that lurid green. Are you aware if the 3 bolts show any sign of being thread locked ? If not, that is your evidence of a reason for the failure. The difficult bit will be confirming at which point in the bike's life they were installed without it; at the factory or during a service or remedial work. Andy
If Ducati Manchester has stated it is clearly a factory fault, then whether in warranty or not, you'd have a case for not paying the bill. Given that they are stripping the engine to check for resultant damage, I'd ask them to state precisely who they expect to pick up the tab. Don't get to the end and then wish you'd asked.
Anyone got an exploded view of the cam assembly? I'd like to know what those bolts are there for, from that pic it looks like the toothed pulley is held on the shaft by that castle nut in the centre. Also if they had come out while it was running wouldn't it have destroyed the plastic casing that covers them?
I found this but from what I can tell the actual pulley drives the shaft with a woodruff key so to stop it from firing the key would have to shear or the pulley would have to travel off the shaft enough for the key to fall out, but I doubt that could happen with all the covers in place
Id say what's probably happened is the garage that's did the belt change couldn't be arsed changing the awkward belt so just changed the one they could get to, and now its snapped.
The pulleys are in two halves. The inner half is held to the cam by the centre nut. The outer half is driven by the belt, and the three bolts hold the inner to the outer. They are bolted to allow for timing adjustment at the factory.
If it were mine I'd be looking at used parts. I'd be surprised if it needed a complete head - and would be asking what components you could use from yours. If it turns out that the rockers, cams, valves, guides and seats are all beyond economical repair, you could look at a used component. For example, a quick search turned up this one without cams:- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DUCATI-VE...049130?hash=item1a1f1b8daa:g:HbsAAOSw5cNYGZYW Or if you can wait for it to come from the US:- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ducati-Mu...606020?hash=item5d618d4244:g:xBsAAOSw~OVWuR2b I have no affiliation to the parts listed, and it's definitely a case of Caveat Emptor - buyer beware - but just highlighting that a good used part could be a way of avoiding replacing the whole thing. Can someone more familiar with these engines tell me if the loosening, and then subsequent tightening, of the pulley bolts is part of the belt change routine on the 1200?
Why not phone Ducati Manchester and get the info first hand? Do they think it is a factory fault? What is their evaluation of what they saw? What evidence is the Honda dealer offering to prove they did not, in their ignorance remove the bolts in attempting a belt change and either forgot to refit them, or did not retighten them? Did the threaded holes show any evidence of Loctite, or similar thread lock - if they did, it is highly unlikely the bolts came out by themselves, if they don't show any evidence, then it may be a factory omission. Why would anyone offer goodwill to that extent if they were without fault? If it is accepted that it is a factory fault you may be best advised to contact Ducati yourself and seek to get the whole bill paid by them
@barryw33 . You have been told various things by various different people (who have their own axes to grind), but judging from your posts you have not established what is true, what is false, and what are the real facts. All you have so far is a set of vague unsupported assertions. Somehow you need to nail this down. What components exactly are damaged, and in what way are they damaged? With Ducati part numbers and list prices for every part, and photos of the damaged bits. How exactly did those components come to be damaged? Was the problem the fault of the factory on first assembly, or someone else during later maintenance work? What evidence is there to prove this? How many hours of work would be required to reassemble the engine with good components? And how much per hour would the workshop time cost? Until you have established some facts as above, if will be hard for you to contradict any old guff which some dealer feeds you.
I've possibly got the paperwork on what was needed when mine had to be rebuilt after going down to one cylinder. I was told one of the cams had sheared. It was 1 month after I'd purchased it so it was done under warranty. My second engine failure (snapped crank) was 1 month outside of warranty and I was politely told to do one. Luckily it was under finance, and I just backed it to the finance company as not fit for purpose. If I can dig out the paperwork, you'll get part prices and amount of labour needed.
I don't think so, I've know one of the mechanics personally for many years and he's a good egg. Can't vouch for the rest of them. When I bought my multi from Ducati Mcr the sales guy didn't have much good to say about Hunts. But I was buying from them and not Hunts so slightly biased I'm guessing.
I'm asking this because I just don't buy them being loose or working loose from factory , if they were not tightened properly at factory I could not see them lasting 16000 miles and six years till the first cambelt job ....assuming no one has been in there messing before . Then from the first cambelt job it's done 1700 miles till the next cambelt job , then the second cambelt job it did a 1000 miles till it broke down . So who knows if someone for what ever reason cracked them bolts off and did not re tighten them on the first job or the second one . I'm not saying things cannot go wrong from factory but with things like ....crank pulleys , cam pulleys , tensioners , jockey rollers and so on if something is not tightened properly or just ' nipped up ' due to loading and un loading of the belt it will soon work them loose . Like already been said cheapest option probably to buy a full cylinder head off eBay or a breaker or some such .
I'm still asking if the bolts fell out while you were running the engine is there any evidence on the cam belt/ pulley covers? I'll find it odd if there isnt. I also find it odd that all 3 came out at the same time?
