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Slippery roads

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by michel couque, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. Dear all.

    Around the end of November last year,myself and several others from the same bike club were riding in the Essex areas as normal. That day I was riding around the A10 corridor london to Royston,Then around Baldock,then back towards Buntingford and into Essex towards Thaxted etc. Now the riding in Herts around bunting ford and Baldock was fab,no rain,dry roads,great grip,a right hoon.Then as we got over Essex way,with the same weather things changed dramatically.The roads looked dark and dampish,were as slippery as an eel,but with the same weather as a few miles down the road in Herts.I had an interesting slide at low speed,and called the rest of the days ride off as it was an accident waiting to happen.Several of my colleagues riding in Northern Essex also had similar grip problems. We also noticed that the tyres withheld a dark wet looking strip for many days in a warm garage. So I wrote to Essex Highways,who tell me they treat the roads with an agent if gritting is likely soon,in order to get the grit to perform better.They state that no other motorcyclists have made a complaint so do not see this as a problem.I believe there are many of us experiencing this problem,but would not think to contact The County Highways agency,but loads of us are talking about it over a pint.So I am interested to see what your experiences are,and if we do complain directly then the problem is registered and dealt with.I know that many riders were put off going out over the last several weeks as they were not confident in the grip available. I am really interested to gauge a response,and am also considering the bike press too.
     
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  2. We had the same at similar time out west. But whats the point in contacting HA? Personally, I'd rather they concentrate on sorting the roads out than take away my responsibility for riding appropriately with given circumstanves. Obviously just my view.
     
  3. I/ we want them to sort the roads out too,but this is a new phenomenon , The riders complaining of poor grip are advanced riding instructors and some Police riders too,my slide at around 20 mph and it took me completely by surprise.We survived,but I am looking at this for the wider motorcycling community,I don't want anyone to have an accident due to a new agent on the roads that the council think is problem free,they are basically saying if you guys complain then we sit up and listen.If you don't complain then we do nothing as there is no problem we know about,
     
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  4. Right, not clear in your original post (sorry looks like one long sentence on ipad and difficult to read and understand). So you think they are using a different grit product which is causing it? That the central theme?
     
  5. They have told me they put some compound on the roads a few days before they might have to grit,this is the substance we think is causing the problem.Not the grit itself,TBH if gritting is required I would not want to ride my bike as I would feel the circumstances are not right.i am no hero.
     
  6. Michel they may be using a "prewetting" agent like calcium chloride which is usually mixed with the grit to make it work to lower temperatures. If they are, then it is a waste as the temperatures are not that cold right now and rock salt is more than adequate. Another compound being used these days is rock salt processed with a compound derived from molasses, this is supposed to stick on the road surface for longer. You need to ask them what chemicals they are using
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Thanks Denzil,it has me pre wetting my pants that's for sure.
     
  8. My letter is in this weeks MCN, I am amazed that I have had replies already! So please email me on michel.couque@gmail if anyone anywhere has experienced similar, as the highways agency said that if a number responded ,it is a matter they would have to look at.
     
  9. I advise you to consider making a written request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 to the Essex County Council Highways Department, requiring them to specify exactly what substance(s) were being applied to their roads, and what effect those substances have had on the grip levels of tyres on those roads. Your letter would need to be absolutely clear and explicit, if it is to elicit a constructive response.
     
  10. Will do,but also getting a number of other people to complain/ mention is required as a back up to my initial contact with them. It is they who suggested I was alone,so clearly already I am not. Next week once The MCN letter is fish and chip wrapping I will get going with it.MCN also want to see what happens.
     
  11. They might charge you the costs for preparing a FOI request.

    Motoring organisations may already have information.
     
  12. The requester is not charged the cost of responding. When you make an FOI request, the response might be that the information has already been published somewhere, in which case it is useful to know where. Or the response might be that collating the information would be too expensive, hence the need to keep the request short, simple and clear. Or it might be that the information does not exist, which is unlikely in this case - surely a Highways Authority must keep a record of what they spread on the roads?

    FOI requests are a pain in the arse for public authorities, partly because matters they had hoped to sweep under the carpet can be forced out into the open. Sometimes that alone is enough to inspire a change of policy.
     
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  13. #13 TT600, May 22, 2014
    Last edited: May 22, 2014
  14. Well yes, in theory. But in practice the administration costs involved in assessing a postage and copying charge of (say) a couple of quid, invoicing it, collecting it, and accounting for it would be much greater than the amount involved. So it's pretty rare for any public authority to try and charge anything.
     
  15. I've not seen this post before, if it effects m/c tyres to that degree there must also be an impact on car tyre effectiveness as well. What I did notice last winter was the amount of crud that attached itself to my car and I had the devil's own job to remove, I assumed it was the molasses the HA use with the grit and salt.
     
  16. If a council has set up and staffed at full costing a function or unit to handle FOI requests, it would not be too difficult surely to simply extend their task to the simple issue of an appropriate invoice. Councils do after all have finance depts - council tax etc- so a simple extension of this - not too difficult. Whilst the charge may only be a modest amount it would be reasonable- if one were a businessman - to expect a council in the discharge of its duties to recover expenditure where authorised, using existing resource/teams to undertake such, and mitigate/minimise the impact the cost of responding to FOI requests.


    Councils/public bodies and business/commercial acumen, are not always comfortable bedfellows , however.


    p.s. I dont know if any do actually charge anything at all, the ones i sampled at had on display comprehensive tariffs, but no actual financials. I guess it would take a FOI request to get the info ! - and i am not about to waste public money doing that.
     
  17. Try a few typical average figures - just ball-park, you understand.
    • Cost of responding to an FOI request: £400.
    • Cost of the photocopying and postage: £2.
    • Cost of the financial transaction for charging £2: £10.
    So you think insisting on levying the £2 charge, at a transaction cost of £10, would minimise the impact of the cost of responding to FOI requests, do you? Go to the bottom of the maths class.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  18. just tagging onto this old thread, did approx 50 miles today around Loomies West Meon and roads quite greasy now, be careful out there.
     
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  19. Did anything ever come of this?
     
  20. Hi.

    Naturally the council said there was no other reports to them of slippery roads from others, they would not take into account that I had been contacted by 3 other groups out for a ride that day and found the roads in their county slippery. The county would only consider direct complaints and not all via me. I did get similar reports from other people in different parts of the country. The council did say that had gritted the road with a pre treatment to keep the grit active for longer . So nothing came of it but I shall repost to see what the reaction is.
     
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