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The Engine Run In Myth

Discussion in 'Technical Help' started by Bondy7070, Feb 2, 2020.



  1. Guy gets two new engines, first 1000 miles he minces it on one and thrashes it on the other.

    Interesting results, food for thought.
    Do we really need to wait until a 650 miles service to push a Duc on the track?

    Ps. Yes I know they're 300cc tuned down, low revving, jap engines for a naked bike but still.
     
  2. Given that:
    Thrashing on the track puts a significant load on the engine
    650 miles is faily easily achieved/completed
    Blowing up the engine will -despite warranty- probably mean a huge delay in using the bike due to repairs
    Ducati get no extra kudos or cash from their customers for asking for this to be done so there is probably a good reason for doing it

    It hardly seems like being worth the risk?
     
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  3. In my view - no, not worth the risk.

    However, I have seen it mentioned in threads before this one, that there can be significant power gains to be had for engines thrashed from the start when compared to engines that have been "run-in".

    How much does "significant" represent? Don't know, don't care, not worth the arguing with the manufacturer with regard to warranty, etc.

    Someone else's mileage may vary.
     
  4. I have never run any motor in, car or motorcycle. Principally on 4 wheels I have covered hundreds of thousands of miles and never a hint of trouble. Never had any warranty issue either.
     
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  5. Have you had an engine fail on you during the warranty period and had the warranty honoured?
     
  6. Never owned an 80s Guzzi, then?
     
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  7. Thankfully no - but I have had a few diesels which are similar :D
     
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  8. I have never had an engine fail in any warranty period ever. If you are talking potential warranty issues though, as soon as you put anything into a racing environment - warranties are null and void, whether you have run the motor in or not
     
  9. I had my 999's engine fail at a track day (ie not racing). It was replaced under warranty.

    I do wonder whether it occurred to the dealer to look for signs of "pre-run-in thrashing".
    There again, it seems possible to me that such evidence does not and cannot exist. Wouldn't stop them trying it on though, if they had a mind to do so.

    : o D
     
  10. But a track day is not officially a racing environment is it.
     
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  11. Also if you look at alot of modern European brands some models they've put the first service up to 12k or over.
     
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  12. Track day issues are generally tolerated under warranties. I have spoken with guys about it fairly well up the tree at some manufacturers and they accept that bikes should be OK to use on track days...but that is a million miles away from outright race use. THAT is a definite no-no for any warranty cover if it is discovered. Even MX bikes have a very minimal warranty, it basically extends to fit for purpose - that's about it ;)
     
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  13. Not sure whether it helps one side or another, but race engines are run in on a dyno. Not sure if that’s just the mileage and keep revs low or it’s gunning it thru the gears.
     
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  14. Running in beyond recommendations was thought to be worse than not running in enough, apparently glazed barrels were an issue, modern engines could well be different though.
     
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  15. As I understand the current thinking about 'Running in' (as opposed to the thinking back in say, the pre/'80s), you have to consider it's not just the piston and bores you're 'bedding'. Gears, chain/drive, bearings etc also benefit from some early life care. It also means there's more chance of avoiding catastophic damage (because you're not stressing the machine so hard) to associated bits, if there's a faulty component that gives out. The counter to that is, if there's a dodgy component, it's better to find out earlier rather than a year or so down the line (and while the warranty is still active). During the 'running in' period, I believe mineral/semi synthetic oil is used in modern engines/gearboxes. That 'less efficient lubrication' allows 'bedding' to take place, something that ultra efficient fully synthetics prevent. Also, the early running period should be at a range of revs (not good to maintain constant) occasionally/briefly/progressively peaking towards the top end of the expected final rev range. It's not good to 'baby' a new modern engine/drive train, but it should be treated with respect if you expect long life.
     
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  16. Running in for traditional race engines doesn't really matter very much. They will be stripped down and rebuilt after not many miles. It is more important on a road engine that should last over 100k before rebuilding. Yes, you can not bother with running in snf most people who do this (IMO) never keep anything long enough to get to ehis mileage and/or they won't really care if their mpg and top speed are not quite as good as it could be. Modern engines are so good that you can get away with many things that you couldn't 50 years ago.
     
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  17. 100k. Unless it’s a Ducati. Then 12k seems fair ;)
     
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  18. Yes, well maybe I am being a bit ambitious for motorbikes!!! But I have one Ducati that is on 24,000. It is worth nothing and so I will just keep it - and see how long it lasts for!
     
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  19. Modern repeatable machining tolerances, material production and oils/ lubricants have changed massively in mass produced vehicles of all types. Fuels carry detergents, ECU's maximise within limits , engine performance. Rev limiters. All good stuff but tolerances exist albeit in microns and not thous of an inch. Bedding in is probably a better phrase and makes sense on mass produced motors where selective product control is the norm. Race engines are generally individual units put together as one offs, different ball game.
    Used to bed in with mineral oils, flush and then use synthetics, I've seen a lot of grey oil in my time, not just from motor vehicles but also in turbine trans boxes. Do you need to run in, more pros than cons.
    1980's Moto Guzzi mentioned, tolerance as far apart as fence posts. 1970's Ducati's, you needed rubber micrometers and foam feeler gauges.
    The occasional Italian tune up every so often does no harm. (Italian tune up is the art of thrashing a bike) Cheapest and most effective maintenance? Oil change, filter change and check that little magnet in your drain plug.
     
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  20. I was offered a French registered multistrada 1000 ds with 130,000 km. it actually ran very well with original motor and no obvious problems.
     

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