Trump

Discussion in 'Speakers Corner' started by triari, Nov 8, 2016.

  1. Is Trump really interested in curbing nuclear proliferation, or is it just grandstanding? Whatever deal is reached with NK, it’s unlikely to be much better than the Iran Nuclear Deal, which he unilaterally* pulled out of...

    4F460080-8FB1-410B-83F4-57F69FC30ECA.jpeg

    *which also begs the question (if you’re KJU): “why the f%ck should we trust him anyway?!”
     
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  2. The negotiations must have come to an end, though, else why are you posting in this fashion?

    Surely not simply to vent your spleen over a President that you wouldn't have voted for had you been American. Or are you American? Is that why you seem upset?

    I mean, the info you posted above looks like normal jockeying for position during a negotiation where neither side can be seen to back down. There is going to be a lot of tough talking and such ... but you seem aware of something the rest of us are not privy to. Wait, you're not American - you're North Korean and you have close family involved in the negotiation!

    Dammit Dom, you sly dawg. Well played, well played.
     
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  3. I think Dom eats dogs
     
  4. How racist!

    Dom, we welcome our North Korean c̶o̶n̶q̶u̶e̶r̶o̶r̶s̶ brothers with open arms.
     
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  5. FFS noob, Dom has friends in nuclear places, show a little deference, yeah?
     
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  6. Dom's only friend is duke and I'm pretty sure duke is Russian not North Korean :D
     
  7. Nuclear, noob. Nuclear.
     
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  8. Ugh.

    Made the mistake of turning on Sky News at a point when I was unable to change channels or turn off the sound. As a result, I was exposed to a toxic level of that presumptive, condescending old trout of an ideologue, Polly Toynbee. What a disgustingly smug and superior creature. Sickening.
     
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  9. She is a hateful old hag, her colums in the Guardian are the equivalent to listening to Morrissey whilst you have the worst depression
     
    #4909 noobie, Jul 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  10. Today Trump said: "Germany is totally controlled by Russia because they will be getting from 60% to 70% of their energy from Russia, and a new pipeline, and you tell me if that's appropriate because I think it's not and I think it's a very bad thing for NATO." He also mentioned the millions the Russians are recieving from energy sales as Germany (and other EU countries) is reliant on them having scrapped coal and nuclear power "Meanwhile Nato has to spend millions to defend them (Germans) from Russians . Especially problematic as the Germans are not spending the 2%of GDP on defense though other NATO nations are and in some cases more.

    The video here shows him saying this at dinner ( no pics of his burger or chicken nuggets).
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44799027

    It was a thought provoking, measured and entirely reasonable approach imo. The tweets later less so, but you can't have it all.
     
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  11. He is marmite but his points were on the money

    1 please mr nato protect us from the big bad russians but we don't won't to pay for it too much ourselves as America will
    2 The russians are so dangerous that we do business with them using some of the billions we should have been using for nato
    3 the other money we should be putting into nato and our own protection, is now being pumped into our own industry giving us an advantage over the countries who do pay the right amount of nato contributions
     
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  12. An obvious point but nonetheless worth mentioning is the newly revamped Russian Military is paid for in no small part by all of our countries buying gas & oil. I wonder how nations who are dominated/ occupied by Russians feel about us paying for the weapons?
     
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  13. Except, that’s not true.

    About 60% of Germany’s GAS supplies are indeed from Russia. But natural gas makes up only about 20% of Germany’s ENERGY mix. So about 12% of overall energy supplies...

    C’mon people. We should know by now not to take anything Trump says at face value.

    And I presume if he’s now saying Russia is a threat he’ll be fully supportive of NATO and not looking to roll back sanctions on Russia? (Unlike the GOP Senators who spent 4th July in MOSCOW of all places!)
     
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  14. Its unfortunate but no one expects Trump to provide factual details. TBF Trump shares that quality with many leaders - for that matter May suffers from the same problem but she is not as rude.

    Still "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" is a well known expression. A variation might be "Don't feed the hand that kills & occupies you".
     
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  15. Hi Duke, good to see you again :D any proof or links for that?

    Although he mentions Germany directly he has also mentioned most of the eu countries are not paying the gdp but still expecting protection whilst buying oil and gas from Russia

    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statis...each_Member_State,_2017,_in_value_updated.png

    https://www.thenational.ae/business/energy/eu-even-more-dependent-on-russian-gas-1.695131

    https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Europe-Becomes-Victim-of-Russias-Newest-Oil-Strategy.html

    https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/11/news/economy/russian-gas-germany-trump/index.html

    https://oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/Europe-Buys-More-Russian-Gas-Despite-Strained-Relations.html

    What is also proven and despite the warning happened very recently, when the Ukraine didn't do as Russia told it before invading, Russia simply turned the Gas and oil off .

    Europe's ever increasing reliance on on Russian gas and oil leaves them wide open to a Ukranian style blackmail. I remember on the Skripel poisoning, many european countries dependent on Russian oil and gas were very slow to support the U.K.'s stance against Russia and with the U.K. now leaving the eu, I would not surprise me if the eu start becoming even more dependent on Russian Gas and Oil

    http://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/71507
     
    #4915 noobie, Jul 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  16. Fact-check on Trump’s NATO funding talking-point: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/05/31/trump-on-nato-funding-still-misleading-after-months-of-fact-checks/

    As often is the case, Trump is focusing on overly simplistic headline-making interpretations. Note the distinction in the above between direct and indirect funding. The US contributes about 22% of direct NATO funding although that $500M is actually a relatively tiny proportion of overall US Defense spending ($600 Billion!). Germany contributes about 15% of NATO’s direct funding.

    Trump’s obsession with the 2% / 4% of GDP yardstick relates to indirect funding. This is simply a measure of overall defense spending compared to GDP. For the US (a global superpower) that includes completely non-NATO activities such as maintaining bases in the Pacific, so it’s a very arbitrary yardstick, and not one to get particularly het up about. Greece passes the 2% measure despite cutting its defense spending, simply because its economy has collapsed.

    The existing 2% of GDP measure is a non-binding target agreed between NATO members (US included) for 2024, partly in response to recent Russian aggression. But it’s six years to go to that deadline and there’s simply no justification for one member to unilaterally move the goalposts and insist on doubling that target...! That’s just not how international co-operation works.

    Imagine if your local bike club had agreed fees of £20 per month and then one member turns up at the next meeting demanding that everyone pay £40 per month (or they’ll quit?!)...

    Trump also implies that the US is ‘picking up the tab’ for those NATO members who don’t meet the 2% measure, which is just completely false.

    What is Trump's motive for being so disruptive? Is it an excuse to withdraw from NATO altogether? And if so, guess who would be most pleased about that...
     
    #4916 domRusty, Jul 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
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  17. So what?
    If you remove your anti-American, Trump-hating blinkers, its obvious Trump has an inarguable point.

    What precisely is NATO for? As Trump said to the Germans, you pay billions to the Russians for your energy dependency and then you expect US taxpayers to spend billions defending you from - the Russians. Why? And in the meantime, a Germany rebuilt and equipped free of charge and given the mother of all head starts on the back of its own crimes grows fat on the misery of millions of southern Europeans by rinsing the rigged internal market which it controls for its own benefit, yet sneers at the US President and US taxpayers who are underwriting it's national security for nothing. Yet Trump's the villain for calling out this blindingly obvious outrage just because he isn't Obama and a mealy-mouthed "progressive".

    I hope he pulls the plug on NATO. High time continental Germanic Europe, which has repeatedly cost the rest of the planet such a grievous price in blood and treasure for nothing of any conceivable quantifiable value learned to stand or fall on its own two feet.
     
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  18. but but but trump trump trump
     
  19. The eu has been taking the piss for quite some time, we've seen similar in brexit, they demand access and information share from our security services whilst at the same time saying we can't be trusted with gallileo

    and yet nato is effectively little more than to protect europe from Russia, like gallileo, they seem to be saying, please protect us from the bad russian man and give us your money to do so, whilst at the same time saying, Hiya putin old buddy old pal, got any gas and oil for us, we have billions for you

    Imagine if your local bike club had agreed fees of £20 per month and then one member turns up at the next meeting demanding that everyone pay £40 per month (or they’ll quit?!)...

    imagine then what is actually happening , everyone in the club agrees a target price for the club and 4 years later, the people who need the bikes the most still are not meeting the price and many are not even meeting half the price. How do you think those who are paying the agreed amount and don't even ride the bikes would feel?

    Trump also implies that the US is ‘picking up the tab’ for those NATO members who don’t meet the 2% measure, which is just completely false.

    Well, if there is a short fall and we've already established most of the eu are not meeting their promised commitment, and for at least 4 years, someone is picking up the slack and it ain't the eu

    He's a business man, he's asking what are Americans getting for their nato buck? So far all it looks like is Americans are getting the piss taken out of them. Obama said the same thing as did biden, only in their 8 years, they kept raising it but politely and got nowhere other than empty promises apart from a handful of eu country's. The 2% was agreed in 2014 but the eu were playing long and loose with their commitments to their own protection through nato well before 2014.

    His questioning of the eu's piss taking is fair and on point
     
  20. Yes, but in dukes defence maybe it was a timing thing. Change each of those slides to the afternoon and 3 of them might be sat on the crapper whilst Trump would be shown at his picnic.