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Tuition Fees... Worth It?

Discussion in 'Trackdays & Rider Skills' started by Mary Hinge, Jul 24, 2017.

  1. So I'm thinking of biting the bullet at a euro track day event. They reckon Simon Crafar is an excellent coach which I have no qualms with... But nigh on 500 quid for the day. Worth it??

    Thoughts please.
     
  2. Is that a very small group with himself.

    If not it sounds a bit steep to me.

    And is lunch included :)
     
  3. It's one to one. Every other session with a debrief between sessions. I've heard it's excellent training but 500 ain't cheap... gumph!
     
  4. I'm guessing that is for one of SC's own track days ? FE and NL charge about £180 a day session on their days. Carole was coached by Andrew Pitt at Cartagena and he was really great. Although we paid for the day, he spent some time with her on all 3 days and on the odd occasion when he was just circulating, he'd pick me up and give me a couple of laps of line coaching. I had a session once with Niall Mackenzie and immediately chopped 7 seconds off my lap times. £500 sounds really steep but to put it into perspective, how much is a day with CSS or Ron Haslam school ? SC, CSS or RH ....... for what it's worth, SC for my money. Andy
     
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  5. 500 notes is cheap if it actually improves your riding imo, if it makes you safer, use less energy, faster, use your tyres less for the same or faster pace, etc it's got to be a good thing. So many of us just circulate repeating the same old mistakes, if you can get a coach that you gel with then it's got to be worth it.

    Having said that... if you can find a buddy that can 'easily' keep up with your pace then just getting them to follow you for a lap or several (with a camera on their bike recording you) will probably be worth a whole lot to you - most of us know what we should be doing and most of us have no idea what we are actually doing on the bike until we see ourselves actually doing it... so self-analysis of the footage will teach you a whole heap IME.

    Tuition on alternating sessions will be fine - giving you one session to practice all the sh*t you've been told before the next coaching session but i gotta say... one session with a coach first thing in the morning and then first session after lunch would probably be more than adequate for most with a reasonable amount of riding experience. If you're there for a few days - if you could split the training sessions over those days then I'd say that would be ideal - most of us are not good enough to get the most out of advice in just one session and need several sessions to confidently implement any 'new stuff' into our riding.

    I talked to a guy last year, lanky older fella that used to race, he was wearing a Crafar Voodoo t-shirt so I bugged him about it, despite being seriously not short of a bob or two he repeated several times that it was "bloody expensive though" but said the training with SC was the best he'd ever had and would recommend it to anyone even if it's "bloody expensive though".

    FWIW the UK rider coaches charge more than what you're quoting and some of em are 'total avoid' self-righteous 'I'm the star' aholes so the SC price doesn't sound too bad to me at all - especially if it's actually training with Simon Crafar himself.

    Good luck with it and try not to let his 'eye voodoo' get to you! :mask:
     
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  6. I'm generally a fan of just getting in the laps and practicing myself but I can 100% say that the handful of occasions where I've shelled out cash for 1 on 1 tuition have been well worth the money, They have either knocked several seconds off my laptimes or simply transformed me from being on the edge of crashing (without realising) every corner to being safe and confident of being able to go faster with a bit more practice. £500 is a fair chunk of cash but it's quite reasonable for a full day, especially for an experienced coach like Crafer.
     
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  7. Mike Dickinson is good, does 1:4 all day for £150 or so.

    If that's 1:1 then it's similar to Spike Edwards and the others probably. If he's working with two riders, not so.

    Fwiw I am a big advocate of training, but unless you are going to do enough to practice over and over get a fast matevto follow you and use the internet :)
     
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  8. Cheers guys. I'll go for it. The key statements here are 'safety'. I'm just back from a double euro at Slovakiaring and Brno and I know I nearly binned it a few times. Saved purely by luck not judgment every time. And I know it's all down to crap lines and brake markers. Pushing my front too hard due to bad approach angles.
    And let's face it, if I do bin my P&J then there's 500 notes right there!
     
  9. and on what planet does any damage to a pretty tasty 1098R cost £500 to repair ? Think you missed a nought off there :). Andy
     
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  10. What he said ^ :)
     
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  11. The safety bit is the one I find I have to relearn every year or so. I get faster and faster but its always by pushing in the wrong parts of the corner until I'm just relying on decent tyres to not crash. The tuition always balances things up so I'm pushing more in the safer areas instead. For me it's usually a case of going in faster so that I'm passing the apex quicker and not getting back on the gas too early which has resulted in a few big highsides this year with the R6 so I'm probably about due some more tuition haha!

    The Panigale is particularly prone to this because you can go in so hard but the brakes have endless stopping power and ability to trail brake so I always end up slowed down too much before the apex. I then get on the power too early coming out which makes things dangerous plus I go wide. I do find the Pani needs a bit of extra power spinning the back to get it around anyhow so it's a fine balancing act.
     
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  12. You're bang on about the tyres Royal. That's definitely what saved me (the sublime KR108/106's) On one occasion they must have let go and gripped 4 times in one corner, I could feel front and rear suspension loading and unloading as I pogoed across the track.... 'Oh, you jammy bastard' I giggled to myself as I pulled away.

    Anyhow! I've just gone and booked it for Oct 1st at Almer bloody ria and I cant wait..... Woooooo.... Better get some overtime in.

    Cheers for the input lads : - )
     
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  13. We're about due another visit to Almeria! I like the idea of leaving a bike there and just flying out when ever is convenient. FE are doing ten days for £899, you do a three day trip and then you leave your bike and use the other seven days when ever you please. Pretty awesome value that one.
     
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  14. Did a track training day with British Superbike School up at Blyton Park in Lincolnshire last month, with some excellent tuition. Usually 2 riders, 1 instructor, and only 12 on the circuot at anyone time. I was fortunate in that the mate i went with left as it was raining and the track wet. So that meant I had one to one tuition for much of the day. Good circuit, bit technical here and there with slippery markings in the rain. My riding came on immensely as I felt so much more confident in what i was doing, and why, the result being my lap times dropped consideraby.
    Think it was £288 for the day-not a glamorous location but it's the track that counts.
     
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  15. Blyton Park is ace! They get some seriously good tests there with Evo magazine.
     
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  16. I have a friend that did many css courses. He then opted to do Voodu course. He was gobsmacked at how good the Voodu day was in comparison to css.
    Also as a comparison to the car world. I am charged out to clients at around €900 when I am on a 1to1 instruction basis at Spa or the Ring. Not that I get much of that but it puts 500 into a good place if the client goes home very happy.
     
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  17. Nailed it, thanks... I have connections with Blyton Park and have been offered 1 to 1 with my car, so that's up next!
     
  18. My old next door neighbour had a one to one training session with Niall Mackenzie at Donington about 10/11 years ago. He paid £400 then.
     
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  19. Nothing changes unless something changes.
    Training has got to be beneficial, I've heard good and bad reviews of the trainer in question. If it were me i'd be sure I'd exhausted all the other options first, AD's suggestion of being filmed from the rear (oh matron) is worth exploring, I saw some footage of my TD riding recently and was appalled at how shit I looked! Also well worth taking advantage of TD trainers.
     
  20. My experience of TD instructors is don't bother. Either its 'yeah, juts hang off a bit more' or, as I had a Snett couple of years ago 'did anyone come past? We just f*cked off, didn't we! And you're leaving black lines everywhere!' get distracted by girl walking past and wanders off....

    Remember its not just Crafar that does the voodoo stuff, he has an instructor or two that does it with him. If I were back doing lots of track days, I'd get some :)
     
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