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Your views?? CBT's open discussion!!

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Pixie1276, Aug 22, 2012.

  1. It's got me thinking after reading a couple of posts on other threads hence now starting this one!

    As said in the title this is an open discussion.....
    Ok so law says you have to be 17 to apply for a provisional licence and then clearly have to have lessons, do a theory before you obtain your full licence once achieved you can then go on to drive any car you want 1.2, 1.4 2lt or even a Ferrari!! So then the law allows a 16 year old to do compulsary basic training and get a 'licence' to ride on the road restricted to 30mph, no theory test no knowledge of the highway code other than that mentioned on the training day of which you know will go in one 16 year old tab and out the other! Personally I dont agree with it, even though my other half is an instructor and tbh his opinion is that of mine.
    Case scenerio....let's look at me, 33 years old full driving licence since the age of 17, a very sound knowledge of the road with some years experience behind me.....I did my theory test back then but yet had to to it again to get on a bigger bike??? Lessons.....yeah fair enough I'm learning the handling of a 500cc, test.....mmmm debatable....or is it? Why are lessons and a ticket from
    An instructor not satisfactory?? Why are they so hard on the test for you to achieve a pass to get on the road?? So new rulings in 2013....mmmm what about cars then??? I mean why do the dsa deem it necessary to test you for say a 400 but then should you wish to increase to a larger engine capacity have to retest for the next level??? So mr 17 year in his 1.2 Corsa that he has for 6 months then decides to get a 2ltr Astra no retesting for this and clearly an massive increase in the BHP!
    DSA/government standards are all wrong!
     
  2. I dunno. My test was so long ago and I haven't followed the new rules.
    But 2 points:

    1. Power to weight ratio. On bikes a few cc make a huge difference. Your 125 to 748 jump will be a whole new ball game. This is not the case moving from a 1.2 litre runabout to a 2.0 litre. Different, sure. But not that different.

    2. Expense. Missile motorcycles are still relatively affordable, esp. secondhand. This is not the case with cars. You may be able to move from a 1.2 litre Corsa to a Ferrari but in practice only Arab playboys do. It's not a problem for the general population.
     
  3. +1 Emm, the whole scenario is wrong. Training is a must but to make you keep taking different tests because you're on a bike and not for car drivers is wrong. And I agree with allowing the instructor being able to issue the pass certificate. Back in my younger days, when I was an instructor on the RAC/ACU training scheme we had a woman who was petrified when it came to tests, but could ride very well. After failing a couple of times we just told her we had a new instructor joining us (the examiner from a different patch, so he wasn't recognised) and he passed her with flying colours. Guys like Duke know which of their trainees are fit to be out on the roads and therefore should be able to assess them.
     
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  4. Glid you need to get our more " here ya go son this 160bhp Astra won't me much different from ya corsa" eh????? Arch your right no yoof gets through unless they can prove to me and themselves their good enough ...... I put one through once that was shit to be honest , and it weighed heavy !!!! Plus emm tore me a new ass lol ......
     
  5. Yeah defo Archer I went up to see him the other week whilst he was in the process of telling two students "sorry guys but I'm
    Not signing the certificate off for you!"

    As for a 1.2 car and a two litre not being much different that is debatable! I had a 1.4 some years back 105bhp I then traded it in for a 1.9 Astra 150bhp massive difference shite loads of torque and a complete beast of a car to drive....when it got written off we bought a 2ltr insignia 160bhp yes only 10bhp different but you can tell the difference! Personally the Astra and insignia are far to powerful for a 17 year old that's just passed their test!!!
     
  6. The changes to the bike tests is possibly the thin edge of the wedge, once it has been accepted for bikes (a minority group) they will start on cars but what seems to have been missed is if a bike is involved in an accident the rider is normally the only casualty but with a car there could be far more casualties, on that basis the car test should be more stringent with restrictions on what can be driven.
     
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  7. The main issue is a bike that give Ferrari like performance can be had for a few grand tops, fall off at any sort of speed and you will hurt yourself, probably badly. Cars in that respect are much safer and the statistics show that. I'm not getting into 'the sorry mate I didn't see you' debate, but it's unlikely that the policy makers take that into account when they make the legislation. They just look at stats, which will show a disproportionate number of motorcyclists killed or seriously injured compared to car drivers.
     
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  8. I did my CBT a little over three years ago as a 'taster' for motorcycling and went on from there. I think the CBT is a reasonable first hurdle for going out on a 125cc unaccompanied, although I don't see why the Theory Test can't be added as a prerequisite. The youth with me on my CBT failed for going the wrong way down a one way street, and he was supposed to be following the instructor who was following me !!

    Regarding having to pass additional tests to move up the bike capacity range I think that is unnecessary, the old system of gaining experience for a set period of time on an intermediate capacity machine and automatically gaining an entitlement to the next capacity worked OK. Direct Access for the more mature driver should be retained.

    The problem with the young male is that all too often they confuse bike / car handling with riding / driving safely and totally miss the bigger picture of interacting with other road users aspect of road safety. It is difficult to test for attitude but if the required standard is demonstrated on the test then they should be passed, if not then they are failed.

    This all ignores the reality that the people who are statistically most at risk on bikes are the middle aged guys returning after a long lay off who who crash all on their own

    I am not sure whether you want it to be easier or harder to pass the test ?
     
  9. I agree with Emm. Fast and powerful cars in the hands of the young and inexperienced is a tragedy waiting to happen. Phased training and examination would certainly help.

    The other thing I'd personally like to see in the car driving test is that you do some time on a bike too, even if it was a CBT type element. That way all drivers would have an appreciation of what it is like out there for bikers and would take more care and look out more for bikers instead of blindly barging out into traffic or doing manoeuvres without looking.
     
  10. I think the theory test should be taken before the CBT.
    I took mine relatively recently and the 23 year old Nepalese chap doing his at the same time was pretty much clueless and was struggling with the twist & go he was using! His Highway Code knowledge was zero, yet he still "passed" which means he could be out there now endangering himself and others.
     
  11. Why are people questioning the car test system? Does it really matter what car you can drive post passing your test? Does 100bhp to 300bhp output really make a difference to the standard of driving? Is it just jealousy on the behalf of some that motorcycle riders have to proceed through the system with more training than car drivers?

    Modern cars are full of safety systems - ABS, traction control, anti skid, et al.They quite sterile in a way. Perhaps it would be better to raise the age of driving and motorcycling to 40 years old for everyone. That gives time for a high proportion of the stupidness to be "matured" out.

    (un)fortunately, there are lots do gooders out there who want to tell us how to live our lives responsibly. Of course they know better, or how else could thay have achieved the postion they are in (being a feckless tw*t doesnt seem to hold many people in safety related roles back).

    Because we are older doesnt mean we have the right to prevent todays youth from having the fun we had, in the name of safety or not. I was riding bikes and driving cars in my late teens. Great fun in rwd escorts and 400cc bikes. Yeah, I had a few prangs - its all part of learning and life experience. Do I ride /drive differently now - yep. We should be very careful advocating increased levels of testing for car drivers. Infact, how about the opposite- if you want to drive or ride just do it.
    Accept the responsibility personally - be accountable for your actions. Todays society is full of near miss reports. Wh gives a sh*t, it a MISS. There are no Acccidents , it's now a PC correct Incident!

    I think lost my train thought half way through writing this nonsense. And I can't be arsed proof reading it. Anyways, have a nice day.
     
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  12. I have witnessed the most breathtakingly appalling driving by young chaps recently, real cross yr heart and hope nothing is coming, or if it is lot of flashing lights and on coming traffic slowing to avoid head on collisions!
    I followed said young 'un in his IGO from a safe distance and watched him perform this maneuver 3 times in the space of a few miles, overtaking a caravan, tractor and car. All on a twisty B road, clearly just 'chancing it'.
    Little feckers seem to think the same rules as X box apply, or he has a personal relationship with the baby Jesus!

    Sorry bit of topic, but makes you think even more restrictions are required for both car and bike licensing!

    I know they're not all the same and I do feel for the ones burdened with high insurance due to the numpties!
     
  13. Totally agree... when I was taking my CBT there was this 17 year old lad who didn't know how the Stop sign looks like... WTF?!? ...and yes, he still passed :/
     
  14. I bet most of the pople on this forum have never had a theory test.......... and are fine even if they missed out on that fantastic piece of learning. Si the y didnt know what it was, but he does now. Therefore success. We keep on cowtowing to the lowest common denominator in this country, all in the name of safety we are told . Those lefty liberal right wing idiots who sit on unelected quangos are full of sh*t and self-servience. Give people back responsibility. If you want to do something just do it. No need for licence for this licence for that. But if it goes whrong, you are to blame. God damn nanny state, and what makes it worse are nanny bikers....................I was a right nob on a bike once. Nowadays I am just a right nob.
     
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  15. Which are they? :biggrin:
     
  16. for the sake inclusiveness, I tried to capture a broad spectrum self-serving idoits. Though I did fail to add "thieving members of all political parties".:upyeah:
     
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  17. It's not jealousy, but why should there be different system for bikes and cars?
    Car (at 17yrs) : therory Test + On road test = drive anything.
    Direct Access on a Bike (at 21 yrs+): CBT + Theory Test + Module 1 + Module 2 = ride anything.

    So the relativly mature 21 year old biker needs more training than the car driving school leaver? Obviously this isnt the whole story, but it makes the point. Surely car drivers should have similar training regime.

    Besides this there is the cost of learning to ride a bike all these extra stages mean more test fees and more training fees, bikers getting a raw deal again?

    Exactly why the car drivers need the training! they think they are safe and indestructable! And thats not just the inexperienced young lads that goes for the dopey, distracted mothers on the school run too!

    Sorry Cranker, not a personal attack on you :smile:
     
  18. Bike are more dificult to control. Cars are point n steer. Advocating making car driving test more complex results in increaed costs. Increased costs mean increased inflation (very simplistic). The costs all go to people/organisations that add zero to the GNP of UKPLC. Scap tests, scarpa training, get the people into professions that attract non uk money into the uk tax system.

    It's time for an outlaw state to come of age.
     
  19. Like long distance lorry drivers? :tongue:
     
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