Hi All, So yesterday I cemented in some plans of a small project I’ve been thinking of, by putting in an ultra-cheeky offer on a new updated flywheel on eBay, which was subsequently accepted! (Head on over to the HGB_Motorcycle ebay page for further possible deals!) The project is to strip down the starting system on the 1098R and get it working optimally as it should. While it still starts, it’s starting to get more and more difficult to do so when cold. Banging, clanging, whrirring, snap, crackle, and popping, before eventually firing into life. When hot though, it fires within the first 1/2 cranks. From all the talk about it on a similar topic, I’m sure it’s the starter clutch and associated parts that have worn, it’s a known weakness and a matter of when it’ll fail rather than if. I’d rather get it sorted before it does fail completely, either leaving me stranded, or taking further parts with it on its way out, or both, or worse. Plus, with the weather changing now, need something to do in the garage! I fitted a set of Exige’s HICAP leads last week which were great, hoping it just needed a bit more juice, however, they didn’t really help in my case as I guess my sprag is too far gone. At least the leads will help prevent the new sprag from decaying as quickly. So, I had a read of the workshop manual and it seems fairly straightforward (famous last words…!). It’ll need an oil and coolant change as part of the process, but they are kinda due anyway so makes sense to do it all at the same time. Comparing the spare parts list and some updated online Duc parts lists, it seems the latest parts I need are below, but can anyone confirm? Clutch, One Way 70140351A (11) Flange Starting Clutch 160Z0011A (13) Electric Starter Gear 173Z0021A (14) There’s also the oil, filter, coolant, and the associated washers/gaskets etc, however, changing the sprag, does anyone know if there’s any new nuts/bolts required? Like a new flywheel nut/washer, or the bolts that hold the flywheel and flange together? While going through the parts list I noticed a few other parts which had an updated part number. I know they weren’t required, but it would be nice to know the latest revisions of the parts are installed, depending on how much they cost. And that’s how I ended up with the earlier mentioned flywheel (16)! On to the tools required, I have an impact gun, torque wrench, and is it a 30mm socket for the nut? Aside from those, it’s the engine specific tooling I need help with. Believe I need these below, but where is the best place to source them except the dealer? Any tips/tricks to make the job easier? While I’m in there, I’m thinking of taking the starter motor out also and checking that over, is there any maintenance/refurb I can do on that? Doesn’t seem to be anything mentioned in the workshop manual on that! Thanks all, I’ll let you know how I get on!
Looks like a big list! I did this on my 1098R last winter. First - no need to drain oil if it is on a stand. Tools - get a flywheel holding tool from eBay seller michael4317. I believe he is on this forum too. You are best getting a new flywheel nut and washer but otherwise reuse what you took off. Torque is over 300Nm so you need a big torque wrench!
You will need to drain coolant. If the bike isnt due an oil change, lay the bike over onto some old tyres, floor mats and duvets.
Sorry, I've now removed the the disagree. I must have clicked it accidentally and hadn't even noticed.
Thanks for the input chaps Excellent thanks! I've sent Michael a message regarding the 2 tools so hoping to hear back from him soon! Regarding the flywheel nut, yes I've read there is mega torque on that nut! My wrench goes upto 270Nm after which point I was just planning on impact wrenching it a bit tighter. I was hoping the nut didn't need replacing as I was going to mark it to aid torquing back up to the same spec! I'll probably get a new belleville washer though. Thanks, yep I'll do the oil and coolant at the same time. I don't think I could bring myself to lay the R down!
Unless you've done a very high mileage , your starter is likely to be in good condition . If it's a Denso starter , they are very rugged , but if you decide to overhaul it I've got some links for getting a new brush plate . I did mine a few months ago and it cost about £30 , and I'm well pleased with it . As others have said , a tired and sluggish starter is more likely caused by bad leads . I think one of our fellow members here supplies highly rated replacements .
Alternator is 330Nm +/- 10%. Use a new nut but don't use an impact gun to finish it up... If 270 is all you have, then use thread lock (worth doing anyhow) and hit 270Nm then grunt it a bit. It'll hold. There's a strong risk of doing the threads if you use a gun capable of that torque and if you do, then it's crank time! Guns are OK for undoing stuff, but not for tightening to critical torque... It usually ends in tears.
Its only got 4ish-k miles, but 11 years of starting might have taken it's toll? It is a Denso starter, and I'm sure it's ok as it's not really sluggish, however, while I'm in there I think I'll have a look at the condition of it and decide then if it needs a refurb or not. For only £30 probably makes sense to do it if its apart anyway!
Many thanks for the heads up Nelly! Think I'll keep the gun away and tighten it up with your method, if I can't get hold of a larger torque wrench by then! Would rather avoid having to do the crank!! Yep I've got 270 Loctite which I was planning to use, and also Threebond for the gasket, trying to do it as close to the manual as possible. Thanks for that! I do have a large breaker bar which this could be a good addition for!
Malik if your impact gun is not up to the job of undoing the alternator then I have a battery operated beast you can borrow. 1600nm.
Beast indeed!! Thanks Nick! I'll let you know if I need it. Just ordered the alternator cover puller tool from Amazon which should arrive tomorrow. However, the flywheel holder tool is currently out of stock from Michael, 2/3 week wait before I can order that, but I guess I'll only need it to tighten everything up, so in the mean time I'll get started on ordering the remaining replacement parts and the strip down.
Think a colleague has one so hopefully should have one by the time I put it back together! And so it begins….! First remove her clothes….then get her to leak fluids . Also known as take off the fairings and draining the oil and coolant :-I! Both of those seemed to go as planned. Oil was still a good colour, and no metal particles stuck to the drain plug which is always a relief! I haven’t taken the filters out yet though, plan to do that before completion and refilling with the new oil. The coolant however turned a murkier yellowy colour…I didn’t expect it to have decayed that much in 2 years. Might have to look into that a bit further, unless that’s normal?? Pulled some of the rubber hoses and they are looking quite tired and really letting the team down, I’m thinking of changing these out too, depending on price as I’m already taking quite a beating on the sprag parts already ordered! May just wait until the coolant is due again, and in the mean time try to get the rare alu/silicone Duc performance hose kit. A friend that came to see what all the banging in the garage was late at night. Also acts as my security, ready to slip-up any would be burglar that steps on him! Clutch slave off and looks in good nick and just needs a clean. I’m not a fan of the colour as it doesn’t really match, but it came with the bike and is meant to lighten the clutch, so hesitant to change it out for now. If it breaks though it’ll be changed for something that looks a bit more in keeping with the bike! Now it was time to take the engine cover off. The bolts came out without any issue, and for some reason one of them had red Loctite on even though the manual doesn’t mention Loctite on any of the bolts? The laser tool makes removing the cover a lot easier, and it looks good too. I had to remove the side stand switch as the cover was being extracted as it was fouling on the case cover, and didn’t want it to break the sensor or mark the case. For info, I bought the tool from opie oils at the same time as the oil and coolant, and they had a ten percent discount code running at the time so probably worked out to be about £12.50ish. As the cover came off, I had excess oil leaking down so had to clean that up before doing a quick inspection of what I could see. Initially got worried that the teeth of the gears had to tops all worn off as they were quite flat! But after looking a bit deeper realised they were designed like that lol. Please have a look at the pics and let me know if anything looks wrong! To do a proper inspection I’d like to take them all off and check how they compare to their manufacturing drawings….but I don’t have that data so I think I’ll just have to check for any major damage. That’s where I got to last night anyway, next step is the flywheel nut!
The flywheel nut is now off! Took the best part of 5 seconds with an impact gun! A lot easier than I thought! It doesn't look like there's any threadlock on the nut or the crankshaft though....! Removed the flywheel assembly to start inspecting the parts. To separate the flywheel and the starter flange, I followed the manual and used the bolts to tap out the flange. I used 4 instead of 2 though and tapped the opposing screws until the flange popped out. Not too sure why I was trying to prevent damaging the parts as all of these are due to be changed! Felt good taking care of it at least! The flange fitted is the original lightweight flange which was prone to cracking. This was superseded to a more heavyweight item, which should be arriving soon! Now for the core issue...while inspecting the flange and the starter gear, it was clear to see the frettage the bearings in the starter clutch had caused. These parts are beyond their best! The starter clutch though, surprisingly, didn't looked marked at all!! All the bearings were clean and I couldn't see any damage!...... That was until... .... I put the starter clutch down inside the magnetic alternator rotor part.....and the clutch just disintegrated lol!! Oh dear...The magnet just pulled the spring and all the bearings fell out. Good thing I ordered a replacement! Apart from that everything else looked good, the needle bearings, the gears, and washers which was a relief. The only other worry I had was regarding the driving gear on the crankshaft...I took it off to inspect it, but when I put it back on the crank, the timing marks didn't line up with the driven gear and was 1 tooth out!! I didn't see it move...so can anyone confirm the marks need to line up and there's no other reason it could be 1 tooth out?! Thanks!
