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1200 DVT 11 Month Major And Minor Issues

Discussion in 'Multistrada' started by costis, Mar 28, 2016.

  1. I got my ´11 model second hand and I enjoy it very much. I did the move to Ducati to test whether I could live with this machine and jump to buying a new one when the DVT would come out. I am really enjoying it. But when the DVT came out I was let down from the moment I saw the specs. I waited a bit to see if it would function better than I expected but it seems (from accounts like yours) that my fears were justified. What really puts me off is the following:
    • It gained 20 kilograms. I hoped that better horsepower and torque would take care of that but it seems it delivers the same or less to the back wheel, plus it has that flat spot in midrange. I cannot see how it can outperform the older model.
    • Being marketed as a touring bike, it kept its 20 lt tank. This is really irritating. I don't accept the excuse of a bigger tank making the bike top heavy as another 3-5 liters won't change anything.
    • The dash. It looks absolutely stunning but I'd be really disgusted to see the first scratch on it. And from all the stories I've heard, it takes only a feather being brushed against it to get one (ok, I'm exaggerating but you get my point).
    Maybe I'll wait for the new model to reach its development peak but at the moment the KTM Super Duke GT looks like a very appealing option ...
     
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  2. P&H (my nearest dealer) has suggested I try the KTM when it comes in. I was telling the guy all of my multistrada woes. I absolutely love the bike to bits which makes me so annoyed that it's let down by poor build quality. It's like they need to give the engine and chassis to Honda and get them to do it... problem solved.

    It appears the economic troubles of the world have made manufacturers go cheap on a lot of things as a number of new bikes all get similar complaints of rust and electrical problems. The pinnacle of my biking was my bulletproof, tried and tested KTM 990 SMR. Basic suspension, basic dash, great engine, great suspension and great chassis... to me, the perfect bike (no idea why they stopped it).
     
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  3. :( Disappointing to hear all of the negatives from Costis' point of view, but as has already been said, they are his views and are 'real' to him, so we ought to acknowledge and accept that.

    All I can add to this debate, is that for the very reason that the DVT is a new bike and with the well declared 'history' as has been mentioned and noted by so many Mutli owners on this website since the release of the 2010 bike, to the 2012-14 bike, I chose NOT to get a DVT, because previous history was bound to repeat itself, as it seems it has and continues to, to date.

    :upyeah: Instead I opted for the late 2014 model Pikes Peak I now have. I prefer to wait until ALL of the wrinkles are dealt with on the DVT before I look more closely at one and let nobody fool themselves, as has been referred to within numerous posts here to date, there for all of us to read, this bike, as anyone would expect, already has more than its fair share of issues :eek:
    Don't get me wrong, I will look at the DVT, but not until 2 years in and yes I am a huge Mutli fan, even with all of the other model issues evident from many of the experiences noted here on the forum.

    It's great that all, or should I say, most DVT owners undoubtedly admire and really like their new bikes and that's how it ought to be and good luck to all of you, but I won't be joining you......YET :Shifty:
     
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  4. Sorry to say it but my DVT is actually pretty awesome. No glitches at all (touching er wood as we speak!), no rusting parts, no failures to start - ever. I'm a very satisfied customer. I change my bikes more often than my grey (previously white) undies but this year my DVT is definitely a keeper.

    Ok, there is a bit of a light stall on the acceleration and torque curve but my dealer tells me the latest service that included the latest engine map should help sort that. I've had the service but not had the chance as yet to try it our properly as only rode it home.

    Bikes been to Italy two up fully loaded and then some and never put a foot wrong - oh, and missus says it beats my previous BMW K1600GT hands down for all round practicality! :grinning:
     
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  5. It does look great doesn't it? But you KNOW it'll have just as many "teething" problems as the DVT.
     
  6. +1........My DVT is truly awesome!

    I suppose if i tried hard enough to find fault i could, but other than the trip reset issue which was sorted by the dealer only weeks after picking the bike up, and the fueling (going in on Thursday for the upmap), i really have had almost 2.5k miles with no issues at all!

    I read all these posts of people having issues, and not being happy, thus putting prospective customers off, and i really cannot
    believe that ALL of these issues can exist on one bike? Yes, these issues may exist, and yes, there may be certain bikes out there suffering from more than one of these issues, but please don't let this put you off buying a truly awesome bike!

    It maybe down on power slightly from that advertised, and even that of the outgoing model, but how many of us will ACTUALLY need, or want, the "missing" 10 bhp in the real world.....i certainly don't.....

    Mine is an early 2016 model, maybe that explains the relative lack of issues, but it also suggests that, if this is the case, Ducati recognized the 2015 bikes issues and are reacting pretty quickly....no?

    I suppose, what i'm saying is......forget about the reported "issues", ride the bike and consider this.....if the internet and these forums in particular did not exist, what was YOUR opinion, and would you buy it??

    Great bike, but just my opinion of course. :grinning:

    Steve
     
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  7. Yesterday I got the BMW S1000XR for a 3 day(!) test ride. Size, weight and rider placement is very close to my DVT, but God it is ugly. I plan to use it from work and back (a 60Km ride) and go for short 200Km trips around my city. I will report back to you when the test ride is over.
    KTM has the 1290 Superadventure for test ride which I 'll try on the weekend.

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  8. Yes, I know that. However, the engine is the same with the Super Duke R. It has already been tested by buyers. So if I have the choice between two bikes with teething problems, the logic says that I will prefer the one that delivers 20HP more, is 15kg lighter, has a bigger tank and same or better consumption (other things being equal like electronics, suspension etc. which I think they are).

    What troubles me is that problems that SHOULD have been solved by now are still evident in the DVT. I think TonyMNo1 has described my feelings/disappointment perfectly.
    And no, I don't want the KTM, I want the Ducati. I like the Ducati, WAY better than the KTM. Although the GT is a far better looking bike than the 1290 Adventure for example (which I personally find very ugly), it still can't match the DVT for looks (which is of course a very personal opinion).

    I'm also happy to see satisfied DVT buyers. I would also like to know how many of these buyers had the previous model.
     
  9. I'd have to say the original list in the first post is mostly personal opinion based on a lack of knowledge. To say the cornering ABS is poor because it didn't prevent you from blowing a corner is completely inaccurate.
    Air hits your foot, Really?
    All the "minor downs" are just irrelevant. This is just seems to be a series of complaints for the sake of complaining.
     
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  10. Give me a break. Lack of knowledge? Being a mechanical engineer since 1991 and owner of a machine shop I would say : WHAT?
    Try to break harder than usual in a corner and you will see my point. And get your foot off the right peg at 90 - 100 mph and try to get it on again.
    I am not trying to sell my point of view here. I am trying to help Ducati owners and Ducati by feedback.
    And shouldn't I complain after paying 22000 Euros?
    Cheers
    PS previous bikes : Honda CBR600F, Honda AX1, Yamaha XT600E, Honda Transalp XL600V, Yamaha Fazer FZ600S, Suzuki Vstrom DL650, Honda CB600F, BMW R1200GS 2007, Suzuki GSX1300R Hayabusa, Honda CB1000R, KTM Adventure 990, Honda Transal XL700VA, BMW R1200GS 2012, Ducati Multistrada 1200S DVT. I have some experience, right?
     
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  11. Well yes, a 100 mph wind on your foot WILL be noticeable if you remove it from the pegs and stick it out in the air stream. There is no situation where this would not happen.
    All bikes stand up under braking, it's the law, of physics. It's up to you to lean and not let the bike drift to the outside. Cornering ABS prevents the wheels locking under braking while leaned , it does not help you lean harder to keep your line and it does not make you drift to the outside.
    No matter how much a bike costs they will all drift wide if you don't lean, and at 100 mph the wind going past you will be moving at 100mph, keep your foot on the peg ffs
     
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  12. TaskMule, do you work for Ducati by any chance?
     
  13. Whut?! He said nothing there that was remotely pro or anti Ducati - merely stating what should be the blindingly bleedin' obvious: that it gets breezy at 100mph and that cornering abs doesn't override the laws of physics. Confused...
     
  14. I had an Aprilia Tuono V4 previously, and after 10K miles it still looked immaculate. The quality of parts is top notch. Unfortunately, the dealerships are few and far, and there's zero practicality.

    It took me months to take the plunge to move to Ducati, but I dived in open eyed, know the bits aren't as good and there WILL be issues.

    I've had my base DVT for three months now and it's done 1,300 miles.
    So far, only the fuel sender is playing up, which is being sorted out soon. Other than that, loving it! 42T sprocket did wonders.

    My view is that I needed a Ducati in my life. They've hooked me with the branding, the gear, the bike, and so far I'm glad I bought it. I've set myself an expectation that there's going to be a few niggles, and will put up with them .... to a point.

    I can appreciate the frustration felt in having issues on an expensive premium bike, but Ducati are a relatively small business, producing low volume bikes - so I'm working on the assumption they'll always have issues with their bikes, much like any of the European bike manufacturers.

    If I can't handle the issues I'll switch to Japanese - but have you been in a Honda dealership lately? Dull as dishwater.

    Now, if only I could decide what to do exhaust-wise....
     
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  15. PROPOSED SOLUTIONS

    MAJOR DOWNS


    1. Fuel injection response. From April 2015 to November 2015 the fueling was very disappointing. In November a new fueling map was downloaded and things felt better, but far from perfect. Also average consumption raised 15%. An engine of this size shouldn’t have midrange hesitation on throttle.
    FIX : more testing and development. New fuel map. (Maybe ask a tuning expert company for help - the same way Termignioni is helping with exhaust...)

    2. Advertised horsepower and torque curves are not even close to the real figures. The manufacturer is either lying or not informing the customer of his inability to produce advertised horsepower and torque output. To get claimed output, one has to remap the engine, clearly doing the job the manufacturer should have done! Of course this can raise warranty issues.
    FIX : say the truth and save face!

    3. Stability when accelerating hard or at high speeds is poor. After the rear wheel is worn a little in the center area, stability is somewhat better.
    FIX: add a steering damper

    4. Engine startup is a headache 2 out of 10 times. The starter feels weak and the engine can stall 3 or 4 times in a row. Finally a hard start has to be implemented to get an unsteady idle.
    FIX : Find what causes it. Maybe the fuel return canister. Maybe the DVT initialization. Maybe the fuel map when cold.

    5. Cornering ABS works, but not as good as promised. The bike rises more than expected when braking in a turn, alarming the rider. After such an experience (in the real world and not in a test facility) the system cannot be fully trusted.
    FIX: Testing and adjustment of the Bosch 9.1 for this particular bike

    6. Keyless start is a pain. It takes longer than a normal key to start or lock the bike, and you have to carry the non water proof key in a pocket. To unlock the fuel cap you have to take your gloves off and search in your pocket and since you open it you have to hold on to it to lock the tank again after refueling. Sometimes the battery in the key has a bad contact and you fiddle with the key losing time and patience.
    FIX : Instead of waiting 4 seconds to lock, lock immediately if the wheel is at its limit and the engine is off. Add free electronic tank lock.

    7. The TFT display is very prone to scratching. The first time the bike gets washed, scratches appear. Even using an expensive samois leather does not prevent damage to the plastic surface of the dash.
    FIX : Recall all bikes and replace dash with one that has a glass covered screen.

    8. There is no feet air coverage when speeding more than 140 kph (85 mph). If a foot gets bumped off the peg by an air blast, it is very difficult to get it on again.
    FIX : This one is hard since no manufacturer will admit such a design flaw. A change in peg position should be considered as well as a change in the engine covers to get a little more space. This would help the reach to the rear brake pedal as well. Add some air blast protection in front of the pegs - maybe a small fin.


    MINOR DOWNS

    1. The fuel level indicator is not precise. Depending on the mood, reserve light switches on and off.
    FIX: pass the problem to the electronic unit supplier and make him fix it ASAP

    2. A bolt on the left side of the engine holding some sensor next to the gear lever is rusted.
    FIX: use stainless steel bolts and screws (like BMW)

    3. The brake lines in the front wheel scratch the fender constantly.
    FIX: Recall all bikes and change the routing of the lines.

    4. When steering is locked on the right, all cables and lines compress the dash.
    FIX: Let the steering wheel lock only on the left side (Cheap) or make cables longer and anchor them differently.

    5. DVT system offers very little help when accelerating under 3000 rpm in top gear. Mirrors become blurry, vibrating dash cannot be read, and there is a tractor like feeling.
    FIX : real time overlap adjustment is not as good as camshaft profile adjustment, that's why Honda took the hard route for the VTEC system. Nothing can be done here without major redesign. At least don't let marketing department overemphasize DVT with overly exaggerated benefits.

    6. Windshield works poorly for its size.
    FIX : change the angle of attack as the screen rises.

    7. Center stand bounces hard under the bike when passing over potholes.
    FIX : Use different elastic dampers, and or linkage - spring geometry.

    8. Seat cover becomes wrinkled from riders weight, after the first 1000 Km (600 miles).
    FIX : work with the seat manufacturer for a solution (very easy)
     
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  16. My response was based on the unnecessarily aggressive and dismissive way he responded to a persons concerns.

    I particularly think use of the word "irrelevant" is hardly justified or helpful.
     
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  17. I really can't agree with the suggestion to fit a steering damper, in over 30,000 miles I've never found the need for one?

    I would agree about the quality of some components, a small increase in quality would deliver a much higher level of satisfaction.

    I also had a couple of Aprilia's and the quality of materials they used was higher. However their warranty cover was rubbish. Brown connector failure, clutch slave cylinder, alternator, all well documented issues that were never addressed. And it looks like they have just gone bust again!

    By comparison the Ducati warranty has been excellent and responsive.

    My only real issues (so far) have been a terrible rattle from the screen area (in an unscientific test at the dealers this seems to affect every other bike in the showroom) and squealing from the front brakes at low speeds (which seems to have been fixed at the latest service yesterday)
     
  18. Never found the need for a damper myself, always found the bike to be stable.

    Sounds like poorly set up suspension could be your issue, not a design flaw!
     
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  19. The enduro ecu map will be offered to all multistrada dvt owners as a free upgrade, if they wish. Stated motorcycle-usa.com in their video review of the enduro just released.
     
  20. returned the S1000XR after a three day test ride. A full review will follow sometime this week. Back on my DVT with mixed feelings.
    I drag raced both with a very good friend of mine. We switched bikes twice but results didn't change much. 0-400m and 0-1000m.
    All gear shifts in my 11 month DVT were without clutch (sometimes gear didn't lock properly) at 10700 rpm watching the redline light. Tires are a little worn at 15000 km odo reading. Temperature at 15 C. Sport mode was chosen with DWC and DTC off after a couple of tryouts with DWC at 2 and DTC at 2.
    Both bikes had riders of 85 - 87 kg weight. Shifting the BMW at 12000rpm with shift light at 11500 rpm using the OEM shifter (nice!) The Odo reading was 1800 km and the bike was beaten bad by previous test rides.
    At 400m the S1000XR was approx. 50m ahead.
    At 1000m the S1000XR was approx. 120-130 m ahead. Smoked my DVT...
    It seems that the XR is more multistradish than the DVT. More like the FFAST feeling on the previous multi (and a little more maybe). More to come.
    cheers

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