I have a 2000 model 900ss ie with the intensions of fitting a 2009 Multistrada 1100s motor. The 1100 motor does not have swingarm bearings in the crankcases(as the 900 does). Has anybody got info of how this is done mating the 900ss swing arm to these cases?( I see other bikes on the web with motor swops). I have some ideas but it would be interesting to see how others have tackled the problem. I have all the wiring, ecu etc.etc. including the handlebar switchgear and throttle twist grip so hopefully a complete transplant. It appears to have Termignoni 2 into 1 headers and has a Power commander 5 hooked up as well. It should be a fun project!!
Bound to be more info along soon, not something I’ve looked at but just found this: – (pictures six is relevant) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ducati-Monster-1100evo-Engine-Crankcase-Only-no-Heads-/264482712707
ok, so first of all as Chris says it might be worth hunting for the right cases if you fancy doing an engine rebuild a the same time. The engine above however to ship to OZ will be extortionate. so option 2 First of all check to see what the difference is in axle diameters. 900ie vs multistrada. In your multi engine swingarm pivot area look to see if the bore is hollow or a solid all the way through - i.e. webbed or just bored through the material. If solid you could look to bore out the swingarm spindle bore if needed or alternatively just bore out the bearing pockets on the engine case. Problem with this option is finding a machine shop that can cope with the whole engine, so you might be back to splitting the cases again. Option 3 If bore is smaller on the multi engine than your axle, you may find it easier to put the bearings in your swingarm and use suitable top hat and spacers to get it to work, and a locking nut or bolt arrangement on the outside of the axle itself - much like a front wheel spindle. If you think about this route, it might be worth looking at putting bushing into the engine case as a guide for the axle, or alternatively look to a bespoke axle, slightly reduced in diameter to allow you to run through a sleeve and into bearings in the swingarm. Lets get the following measurements and then we can go from there 900ss swingarm bearing size Multistrada engine swingarm pivot hole bore.
^ Maximum methodical thoroughness as ever Sev. JFI:- @2moto is considering a similar theme. https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/threads/monster-1100-engine.73393/#post-1455224
Thanks for the input! I was hoping not to have to machine the engine cases. I don't think needle roller bearings in this application are ideal and a bush of some sort would be better. VESCONITE has been suggested by a mate who runs a machine shop. The bore is 20mm and 139mm width. The swingarm is approx. 180mm between the clamping sections. Ideally, it would be easier if I had a spare swingarm to adapt to the cases before I do the swop! I have several ideas but I wanted to see if there are any tried and tested methods done in the past. I have a Lathe and Mill/drill so hopefully a home workshop mod. Cheers Ian.
so the 20mm bore is the swingarm axle diameter on the multistrada engine yes? what's the diameter of the ssie engine swingarm?
This is Plan "A"! The bore size of the swingarm bosses and the bore size in the c/cases is 20mm. My idea was to make 20mm OD(16mmID) bushes out of Vesconite and tap them into the c/cases. Probably easier to make up two bushes and fit from either side rather than one long one. In the swingarm bosses, make up 20mm OD(16mmID) split sleeves in aluminium. These can have a shoulder on them that goes to the inside so they can't slide out of the swing arm bosses. These will pinch the 4140 pivot. The pivot shaft that would be pinched by the split sleeves in the swing arm and is 16mm 4140 P.G.(P.G. is precision ground)steel and would pivot in the Vesconite bushes in the c/cases. To get the correct clearance/float I would make up aluminium spacers with ID clearance for an o' ring to keep out dirt ingress. If I need to make up thin shims to get the correct "float" I can make them out of shimstock and they can go between the split sleeve in the bosses and aluminium spacer. I hope this all makes sense?
I have thought about this but I'd need to get a single side swingarm, wheel etc.etc. as I don't have any of that stuff currently.
Not sure exactly how a single sided SA crankcase is different from a "proper" one but as I understand your explanation, the lug on the case to take the pivot bearing is narrower. Also as i understand your explanation you will be effectively reducing the diameter of the steel pivot shaft from 20mm to 16mm and taking up the sideways "slop" with split aluminium bushes that clamp into the ends of the SA. Why do you need to reduce the diameter of the pivot shaft at all, you are potentially introducing flex. Why not keep the shaft diameter the same and simply machine a 20mm bore spacer to sit between the crankcase and the RH leg of the SA. Split aluminium bushes appear to me to be an added complication and have potential to end up being corroded in place, given their location and galvanic action. If you are concerned that the 20mm bore spacing bush will seize on the shaft or will act to stiffen the suspension with friction between the crankcase and the end of the SA you could put some needle roller thrust bearings on either end. The standard Monster 900 arrangement simply relies on shim washers. I do however agree with your view that needle rollers in the crankcase for the SA pivot is a bad idea. When I took my SA shaft out you could plainly see the effect of the needles on the shaft and it was particularly noticeable on the chain side where the shock loading is highest I put a grease nipple on my crankcase lug so that the needles now float on a film of grease.
With the single sider your problem will come at the top. The swingarm itself and all the furniture is the easy bit. The standard SS is a cantilever shock whereas the others a rising rate, so the shock mounting point may well be misaligned and you'd need to play with different shock lengths which isn't a problem in the grand scheme of things, but the shock misalignment might well be. Regarding the swingarm, ok, your bore is 20mm all the way through. You have a measurement for the arm, so potentially you don't need to dick around with shim as you're going to be making something bespoke anyway, and if you're going to do that, you may as well machine it dimensionally correct from the off. The standard monster mentioned above, like the 888 and the SS has needle rollers in the engine cases, you're just clamping the swingarm pivot with the swingarm. Your bushing idea will work, but you're going to have to keep on top of it. It doesn't rely on bearings apart from in the swingarm on the multi as the whole assembly is supported by a lower frame element which it all passes through and clamps through. Bearing in mind that like any bearing solution, they don't last forever and really should be checked regularly. Most people will never think to strip a swingarm out every three or so years to check the bearings, clean them and make sure it's all good, often waiting for them to break down, and with anything preventative maintenance is better than waiting till it's shit itself. back to you... We've got the bore - 20d we have a width of the case - 139mm Inside face to inside face of swingarm is 180mm (assumed +/-) giving us 41mm float which would be 20.5mm lateral float either side.(assumed) looking at different axle diameters across models, japanese 600's were running 17mm axles at 100hp through the mid 90's so you could look at that diameter as a reference figure to get you started. Based on a 17mm axle scheme, you could think about this: Machine a top hat to go into the engine and butt up hard against the faces. The sleeve of the top hat will be 20mm OD (19.98) and 17mm ID. The outer part will be a bigger diameter to accommodate a needle roller bearing, which you can get with a 20mm length. - you'll be having one of these on each side. In your swingarm you have on one side a bush which is threaded - not unlike your fork legs. The swingarm pivot bolt is a stepped bolt 20d dropping to 17d and passes through the whole assembly and screwing into the threaded sleeve on the other side of the swingarm - probably an M16 or 17 fine pitch to be safe. One of the elements is a hardpoint where the swingarm has no float and buts up against it when you tighten it all up. The bolt effectively acts as a draw bolt to align everything eliminating the dicking around of spacers. If you're worried about galvanic corrosion get everything anodised, or make the top hat bearing mounts from stainless steel. Your bushing idea will work just as well, but you just have to accept that you'll be inspecting them more often. In regards to split bushes, you're trying to ensure concentricity of all the bores, just keep that in mind. If you want I can draw something up to illustrate - picture paints a thousand words and all that...
Thanks for the replies and other ideas, it's exactly what I was hoping for! I've a mechanical background but I'm not a draughtsman so trying to work out ways to do things I don't always work out things the best way. Any diagrams of what you guys have come up would be much appreciated. Thanks again.
Yes, about to start on this. I've found an 1100 Monster engine, so swinging arm pivot should be fairly straightforward. I plan on using a loom and electrics from the 1100. But, I want to retain the original dash. Not sure that the 1100 ECU can be reprogrammed to work without the digital dash and immobilizer. Fall back would be to use a loom and ECU from a 999 or 1098 as I know they can be made to work without a dash. I'll also need a tacho off a 900 as ie as the original tacho has a mechanical pickup, which the 1100 obviously doesn't. The only other tricky bits (hopefully!) will be fitting a fuel injection pump inside the original tank and adapting the airbox to the 1100 throttle bodies. Wish me luck!
Engine swap was pretty simple really. Mechanically everything fits. Now the harder part begins, adding and making functional the ECU and wiring loom!
Hi, you could make a very large "bolt". That was used for hyper-engines going into 888. Enlarge the hole in the engine to dia 36mm. Manufacture a big "bolt". With inner diameter 26mm to take original needle bearing for 20mm. Length in total around 170mm Bolt head dia 40mm length 20mm Rest of the bolt dia 36mm Thread the last 20mm . There is a kind of pipe thread that is suitabel Make "nut" dia 50mm thickness 12 mm Adjust the overall width using a shim BR
