Has anybody a old used OEM camb they are willing to let me have? Of course I'm happy to cover the postage cost. The reason I would like one is that I want to determine, for myself at least, once and for all what the difference is between OEM and the Renault Clio belt. I have been using Clio belts for 3 years with no problem. I had a conversation with Gates, who make both belts, and the engineer I spoke with wasn't at liberty to say if they are the same but he came as close to as one could reasonably expect. He did not discourage me to use the Clio belt. Anyway, my belts are due for a change and I will deconstruct one of them to inspect and test the fibres and I want to do the same with a OEM belt and I will report my findings here for all to make up their mind.
Sounds like a great bit of technical work, you could include all makes of belts in that ... we could really see all the claimed differences then.
Great idea. Are you technically qualified in this field? Belt construction and use, engine loads and demands. I would want to trust someone who knows what they are going, rather than those who are having a go, when it comes to my bikes wellbeing. Surely you would test new belts, rather than worn out ones...
It's not the first time I've come across this thing about Renault belts . I was just about to post a new thread on some of my ideas about cam belts ( and yes , they might be crackpot ) .... but I'll hold off for now and see how this thread goes . The forum has been a little quiet recently regarding technical / mechanical issues . When it comes to all of the Ducati "witchcraft " , there quite a few wizards on here , but maybe a bit less input than in normal times ?
I've just changed the belts on my 916 (with Exactfit BTW) and still have the old OEM Ducati belts lying around. In the interests of science you're welcome to one for your experiment, PM me a postal address and I'll get it in the post.
Hence I said I want to determine this for myself. I'll post my findings but you do with it what you will. Don't take my word for it.
Very interested in this as I used Clio belts by Gates and Dayco for about 15 years. Never had any problems and would do again if I still had a 996.
How will you be measuring the following? Density Slip resistance Flex & Fatigue Resistance Stretch Heat Cycle effects (particularly using a 2nd hand belt) will there be a control with similar usage car belt? Heat Cycle effects Tear and abrasion resistance Specific Gravity Temp resistance Filler construction and all associated elements (obviously there are many more, that's just off the top of my head) or will you be testing more on a molecular level to see if the same polymers and additives were used in the construction?
Let's keep it simple for a start. I'm interested in the fibres used to re-inforce the belts. If the OEM belt uses a Aramid fibre and has a tensile strength of X Nm and the Renault belt uses a different fibre with a much lesser strength its end of test. I don't need to use new belts for that. I say it again. I do it for me, I do it how I think is right. I'm happy to share my method and result. It won't cover most of the points you make. I question why Gates would make 2 belts that are identical in every way using totally different materials. I believe they do not and I want to find enough proof of that believe to satisfy myself. I don't claim to be a expert and I won't tell anybody what to do. I seek to satisfy my own curiosity.
That won't tell you anything I'm afraid - do you know how many variations of Aramid polymer there are? quite literally thousands and of massively different strengths: the fibres in the belts are 'Glass Fibre' btw
OEM belts are specified by the relevant OEM engineer and buyer with a view to the application involved. The polymers in the belts construction can vary in cost from circa £1500 per tonne to upwards of £10,000 per tonne. The additive percentages can vary massively +/- 10% in some instances such when talc is used as a filler in cheaper polymers. The webbing design/ construction and weave can be several different strengths but you will not be able to tell visually. All this research has been done to death btw
If they use 2 totally different fibres with vastly different strength out of the 1000s of different fibres you speak of then I know all I need to know.
I'm just wondering why, other than from an academic interest point of view, you want to do this? Is there a significant monetary saving by buying Renault Clio belts? I just checked on Micksgarage.com and they range from £96.20 upwards, Gates being the cheapest. To my mind that's comparable with the price of Ducati or CCW belts, no? Also, one has to consider the stresses the belt is under. A car engine revs to say 6,000 rpm, maybe 7 (assuming petrol, much less if diesel) but most of the time is probably working at around 3-4k rpm, the bike engine is going at double that most of the time and revs to maybe twice the speed of the car engine. Im no engineer but I guess the stress levels increase disproportionately with the speed and not in a linear fashion, i.e just because the belt is moving twice as fast doesn't mean the stresses are twice as much. To my mind, the stresses on a belt designed for a high performance motorcycle are obviously going to be significantly greater than those on a car engine. Maybe they are all the same, and it'll be interesting to find out, but I kinda doubt it somehow, and even if they are I just can't see any saving in costs . Please do go for it though, do the analysis, as I'm sure there are many who will be interested
