OK, here we go. With gratitude to CrystalJohn, I managed to resolve issue with starter relay and get the engine turning. However, it was doing just that, and not starting even with the fresh fuel in the system. So I squirted some 'easy start' spray into the carbs and hey presto it fired up at last, but sounded like it was running on one cylinder. Running, but uneven. One 'backfire'. Tried swapping the plugs out but made no difference. Started thinking it could now be a HT lead fault?? Not sure. Anyway, so next time I try to start it - NOTHING. No instrument panel lights whatsoever. Completely dead. Checked all fuses. One 7.5 amp fuse had blown but this was for the horn not the ignition. Swapped for a good one anyway but still no difference. Every time I get close to getting this bike going again, another problem sticks the boot in. Have got the battery on charge overnight to ensure it's tip-top. What would you check next?
OK......sounds then as if the starter was almost a red herring......firstly, when you turn the ignition on, do you hear the fuel pump whir into life ? And if you do, can you hear the return fuel sploshing ( NO ! ) back into the tank ? If you can it suggests you are getting fuel to the cylinders and that its therefore probably electrical. So.....lets start at the beginning......take both spark plugs out........turn the engine over a few times to make sure any fuel you may have pumped in there can escape. Check that you are getting a spark on each plug. What condition are the plugs in ? If you are getting a spark on both plugs...all well and good, if on only one, swap it with the other and see if the spark stays on the cylinder it was on or moves. If it moves its the spark plug. If not we take a step further up the chain. Make sure your spark plug cap is firmly attached to the HT lead and that the HT lead is placed securely in the coil. Coils DO fail but they are NOT the usual suspect. Take the cdi boxes and swap them over. See which plug still sparks and which doesnt. If the same plug still sparks it isnt the cdi boxes, so we take a step further. Take a multi meter, set it to measure resistance in ohms.......coming out of the LEFT hand inner engine cover just under the front cylinder you will see a pair of wires that lead to your cdi boxes. They are connected to the SMALLER of the 2 plugs that attach to those boxes. Unplug them. Measure across the two pins and you SHOULD have 95-105ohms resistance. If you havent on either one then you have a failed crank pickup. Not a hard job, and they are about £35 each from electrex......if you have got that resistance, then it may well be your coils......dont remove them, just swap the LT cables from one to the other and see if the spark moves again....that should eliminate whichever of your electrical components is at fault. Hope that helps..... But since you said it fired on the easy start, it may well be fuel related......in which case....take the fuel cap off....inside you will see a flange mounted on the tank by about 8 little grub screws.....loosen them all off and remove the flange. Check the condition of the seals ( 2...one green and one black...) Take your watch off and reach inside towards the back of the tank. You will feel the fuel pump in a rubber boot held in place by a spring clip. Pop it out. The pipe that comes off the pump is attached to a fuel filter. REMOVE THAT FILTER AND REPLACE IT WITH A PIECE OF FUEL HOSE.....you can put an inline filter into the OUT line from the tank afterwards.....saves this job each year. Check the teabag filter on the bottom of the pump, you may need to replace it. You'll also see how much rust and sediment there is in the tank. Given that all is ok, reassemble and use vaseline on the GREEN seal to lube it as you replace the flange but superglue the black seal in place or you will be there for a month of sundays...... That should eliminate the fuel side of things.....only leaves the carbs then......and since it fired up ok on the easy start they are probably ok.....
Wow what an amazingly detailed response! Many thanks. At this point I can only confirm that the fuel pump is working fine but the main showstopper before I can carry out any of the above tests is that the electrics are dead at the moment. When I switch the ignition on there is nothing, as if the battery isn't even connected. The battery wasn't on about half-charge yesterday when I was starting to test the plugs by swapping over and then no power. Got the battery on charge so will try again later...
Use a car battery and jump leads...you could find that a battery thats fecked is your issue.......if it isnt holding a minimum of 12.8v you need a new one. But replace it with a Gel or Glass Matt type...and get one for a 999, its about 2.5kg lighter !
If you have an OEM reg/rec fitted, check the big 30amp fuse by the battery....in fact check the wiring in that area too...... Also check the red/blue wire which runs between the solenoid and the Off/Run/Off switch. And check that you have power from the battery to the top fuse in the fuse box (red wire). Plus do the same for the second fuse down (red/black wire). While you are at it, check the brown wire from the Off/Run/Off switch to the CDI units/coils. If you don't have a multi-meter to test continuity on all the above wires, disconnect the wires (including the reg/rec) before you test them and then use your battery and a test bulb etc etc It is beginning to seem to me like you have a broken wire somewhere, bearing in mind the solenoid issue as well. AL.
AL - you've beaten me to it, sort of :- when I bought my 900 Monster recently the owner had rigged up a length of wire from the pos battery terminal long enough to reach the positive on the starter motor. I was forced to use this method to crank the engine as every conventional means didn't work. Solution was unusual - one of the two large spade connections that go into the single large plastic fuse holder near the battery was heavily corroded and totally hidden from view.
On the Ess-esses the big fuse only protects the reg/rec.......but.........it also supplies power to the reg/rec, which in turn appears to supply power to the second fuse and the Off/Run/Off switch. And from the second fuse to the general relay. A cooroded connection or a broken wire at the headstock possibly.... AL
I remembered incorrectly - the corroded connector was within the 'two into one' junction not the big fuse holder (which is right next to it)
+1 The connector is something similar to a headlight bulb connector & cant flow too much juice at all?? Left mine plugged in & also bypassed it with a a 6mm² cable etc.. Runs from the battery + to the solenoid +, also a fat lead from the battery - to the engine earth: Best mods I ever did! Has transformed the bike from a slow-chugging pig to an instant startup!
Must be one of the most rewarding mods to do IMO, just about to do a Monster 900. I got 25mm2 this time as it was easier to find the ring terminals.
Those mods look good. Can you just clarify something for me, as I don't have my Haynes to hand at the moment. What is the purpose of the junction box next to the battery, as per half way down on left of 470four's first photo? Meanwhile - here's an update on my problems. To summarise, here's what is happening now. Example, this morning. Switch ignition on, dash lights etc as normal. When I press the starter button there is a click and the power goes off. No fuses are blown. Turn ignition off, then back on again and still nothing apart from the odd click coming from the yellow relay box next to the flasher relay (front of bike). This may be normal tho. If I wait for a bit, then switch the ignition back on again, hey presto the power is there again. But same scenario repeats when I press the starter button. Having tried this a few times to try and discern where the click is coming from, all I can see is that there is a spark on the positive terminal of the battery when I press the button. Is something shorting? The last time I tried this, it did actually fire the starter for a brief moment. Worth noting is that I am using a replacement starter solenoid, the connection of which has involved inserting the bare switch wires from this into the two-wire plug which leads off to the starter switch, since the connector on the replacement unit is different from my old one. In doing so, i've made sure that the black&white striped lead from the solenoid connects to the same coloured lead in the plug. Not ideal but the connection is good enough as a temporary measure. No intention of riding it like that tho (if I ever get back on the road again..).
If you can see a spark on the positive terminal of the battery, it's almost certain you don't have good connection there. Remove, inspect and clean up the terminals. Another thing to look out for is that the cable, where it enters the terminal lug, is not making a good connection ( high resistance). This might need re-soldering, or re-crimping.
The junction box is a splitter - one lead goes off to the solenoid & the other goes off to the rest of the electrics! Sounds like you have a bad connection on the battery +? Take the battery connections off & use contact/brake cleaner to remove any gak, clean up the battery terminal with a fine file/emery cloth & reassemble - try again!
I think between all of us we are homing in on the blighter - I feel pretty confident now it's a corroded or grubby connection in the bigger cable runs or junctions, so that can mean both the battery terminals, the plugs at the 'two into one splitter'*, and the chassis to engine earths as all of these could make your ignition light vanish if they went open circuit due to above. *by depressing a little plastic clip (one for each branch) a square plug can be removed from the black plastic 'splitter' possibly exposing the green corrosion.
Problem resolved! It did appear to be a bad contact somewhere, even tho the battery terminals looked absolutely fine, they were given a thorough clean along with starter motor connection etc and the bike fires up ok now. Unbelievable. Thought it was never gonna happen. Also, it turns out that the starter relay/solenoid is in fact perfectly fine so have refitted the original unit. Many sincere thanks to all for your advice and help. Got there in the end! Next hurdle...MOT
right, there are clues here. I had a similar problem with my ss ie when i bought it (although when the starter did engage it would always start) its very likely the starter button itself is at fault, as it performs two functions. The starter / kill switch assembly sends power to the starter solenoid when pressed, and also, via the kill switch to the ECU telling it to prime the fuel pump. if there is a broken wire or contact (not always possible to see) between the starter button and kill switch it will neither turn on the starter, or fire up. Diagnosis is simple. turn on the ignition, does the fuel pump prime? if not or if it doesn't prime every time you turn the kill switch on and off, and the bike also fails to start on the button its likely the button is at fault. I had fitted a solenoid to mine (£27 new from Ducati) and still made no difference. I'd strip and clean the starter button, drowning it in contact cleaner and it would appear to start perfectly for a while, then as the contact cleaner evaporated it would fail again. On a wet day, it would start every time. £17 off ebay for a used starter button, and its been perfect ever since.
I didn't realise you could replace these. Your post prompted me to check the parts book and there it is - 42540031A
Hi Chris Sorry to reply to an old thread, but I am thinking of upgrading the starter wiring on my 900ss ie. Don't want to cut any wires that share the same connector to the battery, so was going to just double up with the Halfords battery cables I have. So my question is did you also take a fat cable to the starter motor as well, or just to the starter relay and the engine earth? Cheers Mark
Just out of interest, why upgrade? With good earth points and a strong battery the injected bikes start fine - I have a motobatt on mine (careful searching can get them for about £60) and the bike spins over like a champ.
You definitely need to take a lead from solenoid to starter as well Mark as this is the longest lead and most likely to show the biggest improvement by replacing. You could always keep the old leads complete just in case you need them but I can't see that you ever will plus there won't be room to double up on the junctions as there's not room for two eyelets plus a washer plus a decent nut.
