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Bitcoins For Sale

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Flatfish, Sep 9, 2017.

  1. Governments can introduce laws regulating or banning any cryptocurrency at any time. I am guessing this will start happening shortly. More generally, any criminal activity which can be carried on for a while "free of government interference" is likely to be subjected to criminal penalties in due course.
     
  2. What do you mean by "cannot be stopped"? If a government passes laws making it an offence to buy, sell, own, or mine it then it will be stopped all right.
     
  3. Value is still dictated by the users and can be traded over the internet. They could outlaw trading in bottle caps but they couldn’t actually stop it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. They do, but not so easy. Imagine a world where your target audience is young, tech savvy people and your supply and delivery chain is same currency, worldwide.

    Then add into that world an increasingly strong-arm approach to money laundering and a place where even the traditional hideaways like Switzerland and the Cayman Islands are under scrutiny to change.

    Wonder why crypto currency is growing in popularity....:thinkingface:
     
  5. They couldn't actually stop murder, theft or fraud, but they can make them illegal. Trading in cocaine or cannabis can be, and in many jurisdictions including the UK, is banned and subject to criminal penalties. It still takes place, of course, but not publicly or openly and those who do it often end up in jail. So what is your point?
     
  6. My point is, it’s futile trying to stop online exchanges taking place. Look at pirate music and movies, there is nothing to stop someone giving a music file to a friend. It can’t be tracked and it can’t be stopped. They go after the centralised systems to try and prevent the piracy. Crypto currencies require no centralisation.
     
  7. My ex wife used to find money I didn't know I had, she then made is disappear too.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. There is nothing to stop someone passing stolen property to a friend. So it is futile to have laws against theft. There is nothing to stop someone sending child porn videos to a friend. So it is futile to have laws against child porn.

    Well, no it isn't futile. People who do these things risk being found out, prosecuted, and punished. The fact that many people do it and get away with it for a time does not make it futile to make it illegal.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. But you won’t find them openly for sale nor listed on currency exchanges. And those found using them (people are prosecuted for piracy) will be subject to the law.
     
  10. The cold wallet is a bit more sophisticated than a simple usb stick. My ledger has an interface on it to allow you to enter security pin codes and at set up you generate a secure 20 word string that allows you to recover your coins should you loose the stick itself. I think the afore mentioned Trezor has similar built in interface and security.
    The whole point of a cold wallet, rather than using an online wallet such as the ones you mentioned, is that your coins or the keys that define them are held offline so are therefore free from dodgy dudes who will try and steal them if they can hack where you hold them and this does happen.
    I agree with other posters, if you can spare some cash have a go, store the stuff on your cold wallet and have a look back in 5 years time, the way its going up what is there to loose. The recent gains are phenomenal and it may all come to nothing but the currency I own, ethereum, was about £5.00 at the start of the year. If you had bought 200 costing a grand you would now have £94200.00 at todays price of £471.00. What if you had bought 1000 costing £5000.00 you would be retiring with £471000.00 in the bank.
    Food for thought and do some more research but in my mind this is a boat not to be missed and whilst some of these will fall by the way side things like bitcoin and ethereum in particular are the future of money.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Actually there many sites openly facilitating buying and selling of Crypto,Coinbase is but one of them.The exchange rates are calculated worldwide in exactly the same way as any commodity.I saw a report today that Singapore is actively encouraging the expansion of cryptocurrency trading,and,(as long as governments are not allowed to be involved),it will grow. Authorities are only interested in taking a cut out of something which they have not had a hand in developing,and are scared that they will have no control over.Threatening that criminals may benefit is the same,”sledgehammer to crack a nut”mentality that infects authorities everywhere. Let people make their own decisions
     
  12. If you have Bitcoin or other crypto,you just exchange it for the currency that you need to pay the wages or tax in.you can exchange it for Euros/Sterling,USD or whatever.
    Cryptocurrency is totally international,(I think Russia has prohibited their use),and the value is completely decided by those who wish to own it.
    It's concept is breathtakingly simple,the technology is breathtakingly complex,and the volatility is breathtaking.
    Bitcoin is the leading name,but there are others that have existed for a few years and not taken off,there is one called "Dogecoin",(the emblem is a cartoon dog),which was designed as a fun currency and can be bought for one cent each.There are people who have invested in the hope it will take off like Bitcoin,and there are a few people who accept it as payment.
    I might even buy $100 worth myself-you never know do ya,if they went to a dollar each I would end up with $10,000 lol.
    I'm not a criminal,but I wouldn't mind getting a half decent bike for a 100 buck gamble.
     
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  13. I meant when they are made illegal, in response to JH saying 'you cant stop people trading'

    So it sounds like you are comfortable with illegally obtained funds being traded openly with no ability to track and recover?
     
  14. Not at all,but then I'm not comfortable with people trafficking,drug dealing,bank robbing or mugging,or mostly anything illegal.All of these activities involve money,or something of value,the majority of which are pretty much untraceable.
    Cryptocurrency MAY be used in criminality,but regulating/banning it will not stop the criminality,far from it in fact,because the criminality already goes on and will do so whether or not cryptocurrency is involved.
    What governments always do is punish the law abiding majority in order to penalise the tiny minority.
    Crytpcurrency is a cheap,extremely fast,very secure way of transferring funds from one person to another,without banks or currency exchanges taking a huge cut from the money.
    Governments don't like it because they haven't worked out a way of taxing it,and financial institutions like the Fed or the BOE don't like it because they can't dilute or interfere with it.
    In almost every instance,the less authority or big business involvement in something,the better it will be,and this is certainly the case with cryptocurrency.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Thing is, if it has no consistency in value, how can you 'value' what its worth? IE its like rising inflation in Argentina, except more like deflation. And how long could that survive if it was mainstream currency? Its like having a pound buy you a paper today, but a car in a month. How can that ever be sustainable?!
     
  16. how do you put a value on a ducati? i can only imagine its the same with bitcoin. you create a desire with only limited numbers available to buy.
    and once you have bought into it, your hardly going to start advertising its worthlessness. self perpetuating? and a whole industry will grow around it. hardware and software.
    got them at both ends eh stu? yah crafty fecker you. :upyeah:
     
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  17. It’s value is in its rarity. The creators created the encryption methods and set a limit to the amount of currency that can be discovered or worked out.

    Bitcoin mining was basically people working out the encryption and creating the currency. They basically let the public be the mint. Once that was done and it started getting harder to find, that’s when the values started to climb.

    When I say you can’t stop it, I mean how do you stop the transfer or exchange of digital information? It’s notoriously difficult, countries that want to inhibit their residents creat these huge national firewalls. Even then, people find ways through or simply use other connection methods. Our country now has blocks in place on certain websites considered illegal or harmful. We can still access them with ease, we just use TOR, VPN, proxy or an ISP that doesn’t block. The harder they clamp down on Cryptocurrency, the more valuable they actually make it as they’d dissuade the casual bitcoin miner, making the rewards greater for those with the knowledge to hide themselves from the government. The demand for an anonymous currency wouldn’t diminish, just the suppply would slightly dwindle.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. A Ducati is a physical item and will have a bottom value. And I’m not buying a paper or milk with a ducati :rolleyes:
     
  19. But you may indirectly buy milk and a paper in 20 years time with your ducati (*assuming* you have kept it long enough in decent nick, the market has continued with above-inflation rises, and you sell it for a handsome profit) - lots of variables at play whether investing in vehicles, property, crypto-currencies or potato farming, they're all gambles of sorts with different risk factors at play and all with a chance of giving a ROI greater than a traditional pension plan.
     
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  20. But if you sold the Ducati,a tiny portion of the money would buy the milk.
    In the event that carbon fuels were suddenly banned,and a huge number of Ducatis suddenly came onto the market,the "bottom value",would drop.Values of everything fluctuate,at the moment this is a bumpy ride but it will settle down.
    Same as anything else,the value is based on whatever someone will pay for it.
    The Mona Lisa is worth millions because some people are willing to pay millions for it:to someone without water in the middle of the Sahara desert,it would be abandoned as too heavy to carry.
    Millions of people already see the value in cryptocurrency,including myself.
    Right now,private companies like Moodys,Standard & Poor/etc,manipulate currencies by issuing ratings reports which are eagerly gobbled up and spewed out by the media as facts,and these affect the value of currencies traded by other private companies who run the worlds financial markets.
    Poor reports and credit ratings bring down the value of a currency,if it's the one you have in your wallet then what you pay is going to go up.Nothing to do with facts,just the opinions of private companies.
    Cryptocurrencies are totally democratic in the respect that the value is set by those who want to buy or sell them-no doubt Soros/the Rothschilds etc are getting richer and it is possible they could buy high-sell cheap to manipulate or discredit the markets,but they have no idea who owns what and so can't do private deals amongst themselves to distort things.
    There are many advantages to a cryptocurrency and a few disadvantages.
    No one is forced to use them because there are plenty of alternatives,but for those of us who value our financial privacy and don't mind the risks,the good far outweighs the bad.
     
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