British Indy: What Happens Now?

Discussion in 'Speakers Corner' started by Loz, May 23, 2015.

?
  1. Full Brexit with "no EU deal" on the 29th March.

  2. Request Extension to article 50 to allow a general election and new negotiations.

  3. Request Extension to article 50 to allow cross party talks and a new deal to be put to EU.

  4. Request Extension to article 50 to allow a second referendum on 1. Remain in EU or 2. Full Brexit.

  5. Table a motion in parliament to Remain in EU WITHOUT a referendum.

  6. I don't know or I don't care anymore

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. best you change your behaviour.
     
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  2. oppinion makers. you gorra love em
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  3. next stop

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  4. [​IMG]
     
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  5. EU plans sweeping regulation of facial recognition: https://www.ft.com/content/90ce2dce-c413-11e9-a8e9-296ca66511c9

    London’s King’s Cross uses facial recognition in security cameras:
    https://www.ft.com/content/8cbcb3ae-babd-11e9-8a88-aa6628ac896c

    Whilst BoJo hasn’t formed such a department*, he doesn’t need to. He has the tabloid press to do it for him, in which much of the rhetoric surrounding Brexit is immigration/protection of the British way of life focused.

    And as to whether the UK will ever have such a thing, never say never. I thought I wouldn’t live to see the day when a sitting PM threatened to disobey the law, but I did.

    I’ve said it a few times before in Brexit related threads - I believe the EU is, like any institution, flawed, but I believe it is the lesser of two evils and for a while host of reasons I would rather be aligned with Europe than the USA, or, God forbid, Russia and/or China. I also believe the positioning of the EU by the Leave lobby as being some sort of repressive, authoritarian behemoth in comparison to the freedom loving UK is utterly false, and, in fact, in some respects the opposite is true.

    Purely anecdotally, I notice that when I go to Europe (in the 2 last years alone I have visited France, Belgium, Holland, Spain, Italy, Germany, Poland and Slovakia), most countries I’ve been to don’t seem to be infested with CCTV cameras, there is not the same plethora of signs threatening you with prosecution should you transgress some petty rule or other and there are not the continual nannying warnings to do or not do stuff like forget your luggage/children/to breathe in and out etc. In summary, I feel that most European countries tend to treat their citizens like adults whereas the culture of the UK authorities is to treat us like naughty children, and I fear that cultural difference will only be magnified once we leave the EU.



    * Didn’t Tony Blair do something similar though, during the cringey “Cool Britannia” era, around the time of the Millennium?
     
    #38305 Zhed46, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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  6. Standard. It’s been a tactic of HM Govt for a while to attack judges when things don’t go their way.

    I think David Blunkett started it back in the 90s when his Home Office kept getting their bottom smacked by the Admin Court over immigration and asylum appeals, after which he would rant and rave in The Sun along the lines of “I’m the boss and I should be allowed to do what I like”.

    It’s just yet another worrying symptom of the breakdown of the rule of law and the slow drift into totalitarianism.
     
    #38306 Zhed46, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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  7. Have you heard much about new EU money laundering laws and laws which force people to declare funds in presumably named accounts and I expect things like bitcoin?

    I wonder what JRM and his wealthy backers have to hide?
     
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  8. Payback for the Lockerbie fiasco
     
  9. How very dare you suggest such a thing, JRM is squeaky...…. :joy:
     
  10. that would sugest they are not impartial.
     
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  11. If Boris’ request to the Queen to prorogue Parliament is “Unlawful”, what Law does it break?

    And is the judgement based on “Action” or “Motivation”?
     
  12. Yeah - I’m aware of the legislation which aims to bring money laundering legislation into line with developments in modern currency. I’d be surprised JRM dabbled in Bitcoin etc though, because dweller in the past that he is, I imagine that he prefers to trade in Guineas and those big paper fivers they had in the 50s ;)
     
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  13. Very true. And per chance the occasional barter transaction
     
  14. A bit of a tongue in cheek remark on my part
     
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  15. cop out, the eu have announced a new "department for protectiong the european way of life" and the U.K. never would.

    I'd suggest most of their capital cities DO have large use of cctv but like the majority of the U.K., away from the heaviest population centres, cctv is minimal and becomes ever decreasing the further you move away

    True but then, liberals, can't like em, can't shoot em :D

    I feel that's more to do with the U.K. seeing a rise in mememe instead of wewewe and why so many of generation entitled get in trouble overseas, it's that liberal middle class, pretending to be socialists that like to adopt the thought police style of governance on others.
     
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  16. When I get chance I will have a proper look into it, but just out of interest what do you feel is intrinsically wrong with such a thing?

    Also, “never would” is a very confident assumption and based on what we have seen in the past few weeks in politics, I’d say that anything is possible now.

    Seeing as the uk has 20% of all the cctv cameras in the world, with China a close second, that doesn’t leave a lot for Europe. I’ve certainly not noticed anywhere near as many when I’ve been abroad.

    I’m also not sure you’re correct that living in a rural area protects you from surveillance much.

    This from the Daily Express:

    “IT MAY be one of the most remote spots in Britain yet it’s almost impossible to set foot in Lerwick, the capital of the Shetland Islands, without having your every step recorded on CCTV. From the harbour stretching all the way to the town centre, a £240,000 network of 14 CCTV cameras records locals’ movements from almost the very moment that they leave their homes.”

    Also and anyway, coming soon....satellites

    For once I agree with you, kind of (though not sure how it relates to me me me). This nagging and nannying really took off under Bliar but no Govt since then has shown any sign of undoing it and if anything it’s getting worse.
     
  17. Definitely Blair's nanny state, but as you say only progressing
     
  18. The never would is because our country is so full of lefties that if we ever had a "department for protection of the european way of life" but substituted european for British, 100% on the money, they would lose their shit and claim it to be a racist and xenophobic tm 749er body and they would be right.

    Just by the output it looks like they are saying white european. If you heard and asked who in europe would have such a department, I'd suggest if you said Viktor Orban, people would not be surprised but the fact it is the eu themselves is another tick moving towards a clone army of countries and one particular version

    Dare I say it, this IS genuinely something they did in the 30's. After Hindenburg was promoted to the role as Chancellor in 1933 Shortly after, the Reichstag passed the Enabling act of 1933, which began the process of transforming the Weimar republic into Nazi Germany, a one party dictatorship based on the totalitarian and autocratic ideology of national socialism.

    Understandable but I think the shetlands ones as with many outlying islands is mostly for when the chip eaters turn up and to protect the locals from tourists

    I believe the U.K. figure for cameras is mostly based on the 422,000 cameras in London https://www.quora.com/Which-country-has-the-most-cctv

    The mememe is more about people think they are entitled to do anything without being challenged, this more so by the U.K.'s youth than any other european country, that is why so many european criminals come here
     
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  19. The actions are judicial reviews of the decision making process.

    Grounds for JR are;

    Ultra vires/error of law.

    Irrationality/“Wednesbury” unreasonableness.

    Procedural impropriety.

    Breach of ECHR.

    There’s a lot of crossover between the grounds though.

    The court does not replace the decision with its own but simply determines whether the decision taken by the public body was taken properly.

    If it finds it wasn’t, the court issues an injunction overturning the decision and sometimes also giving other relief such as requiring the public authority to take some step or other to undo matters.

    I must confess I haven’t actually been following the cases themselves so I don’t know the ins and outs, but I imagine the remedy sought by the applications is for an injunction (interdict in Scotland) quashing the decision and for an order of mandamus requiring BoJo to ask the Queen to recall Parliament.

    I’m not sure how that would work in this instance though, as the English (Miller) case is lagging behind the Scottish one, so there are now conflicting decisions and to order the Scots Parliament to be reconvened while the English/Welsh one remains closed would be yet another farcical aspect of this debacle. My guess is that the English High Court case will be appealed direct to the Supreme Court by way of the “leapfrog” route and then will he consolidated and heard together with the Scottish appeal.
     
    #38320 Zhed46, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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