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British Superbike School Levels 1 & 3 At Blyton Circuit, Lincs

Discussion in 'Trackdays & Rider Skills' started by Zhed46, Sep 25, 2020.

  1. Great thread

    I too passed my bike test straight onto a 600SS with no other bike experience apart from being pillion.
    I like to do things the hard way :grinning:
     
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  2. I love my motorhome. It's old, the pump for the water supply is intermittently faulty, I can't work out how to operate the space and water heating system and bits of trim keep falling off, but I've bonded with it. I can't see me being able to live without one now, not just because it makes trackdays less fraught with worries about crashing and getting home again but also because it represents freedom to just clear off and get away from the rat race at a moment's notice. My only regret is not buying one years ago.
     
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  3. I received some nice helpful unsolicited feedback from the guy who runs the course in reply to an email I sent thanking him for the day etc. I wasn't expecting a response, especially not on a Sunday morning, so that's an extra plus point in the "customer service" box.

    I'm putting it up here because:
    a. It demonstrates their approach to customer service doesn't end when you've paid the money and used the service.
    b. Others may benefit from the advice he gave me about braking.
    c. Last but not least, he was complimentary about my riding (probably sugaring the pill for the criticism that followed o_O).

    "Hi Andrew,

    I'm glad Dan helped you. Most of the very top riders are not great coaches, Dan is an exception. You were one of several riders who benefited as 6 riders didn't turn up, which often happens when it rains.

    I looked at your riding on track as I try to with everyone, and also looked at your front tyre which looked overworked. You looked very quick consistent and smooth.

    Just be very careful. Dan is spot on, but would have alerted you to how near you are to the edge. You have the same issue as Guy Martin.

    When you come off the front brake at high lean angles, you can lose the front as the weight comes off. When you accelerate at high lean, this has the same effect, taking weight off the front and reducing grip.

    You make up far more time accelerating as early as possible, rather than braking as late as you can. But, be very careful not to open the throttle to any extent or at all while your lean angle is increasing into the apex, as you get a treble negative effect of increasing lateral and tangential forces, and less weight on the front tyre. Accelerate immediately you need to pick the bike back up. If you've gone in too slow, you cannot make up that lost time safely.

    The relationship of the forces is explained in Session 2 of our training video.

    Delighted that your son had a good experience. He seemed a very nice young man. It's mostly about confidence.

    Really pleased you both feel you benefitted from the day, and hope to see you both again next year. We are running a new early date on Good Friday 2nd April primarily for trackday riders and ACU licence holders. Other dates are on the website.

    Stay safe,
    Mike"


    Interestingly, he also said what @Advikaz and others have mentioned on here which is that top riders often don't make good coaches, but Dan manages to buck that trend. The comparison to a problem Guy Martin had to work on is also interesting, as I wasn't aware of that, so any further info on that is welcome. Hopefully once that issue is ironed out, then like Guy, I will also go on to become a multi-millionaire TV personality, the World's Most Likeable Man and all-round national treasure, but without having to survive a fireball and a broken back on the way to fame and fortune. :grinning:

    The feedback has raised another question though, which is that Dan told me to start tapping the power on slightly before the apex, whereas the email seems to say the opposite. I must admit, I was wary about unloading the front like that but it seemed to make my riding feel smoother and I got better drive out of corners so I'd be grateful for any observations.
     
    #43 Zhed46, Sep 27, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
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  4. Useful observations and he’s damn right regarding ‘pop up’.

    it unloads the front tyre and you’re off before you know it :)

    I’ve heard good things about Dan :)
     
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  5. Thanks for that. At what point should I be releasing the brakes?

    As my OP said, initially I was trail braking right up until the apex, and IIRC Dan's advice was to release a couple of yards before that and then start gently opening the throttle, but Mike's email seems to suggest doing it earlier than that. What he said about unloading the front at high lean angles makes perfect sense and I did wonder about that at the time. After Dan had pointed this issue out to me, I applied his advice and was still trail braking but fully releasing the brake and gently opening the throttle further back at around the two thirds/three quarters point between my turn in and the apex but he didn't say I needed to bring it back any more than that. Plus, my cornering felt smoother and less hurried and I could see from the speedo that my terminal speeds at the end of the two straights were higher, suggesting that my drive out of corners was also improving as a result.
     
    #45 Zhed46, Sep 27, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
  6. it’s such a hard thing to advise mate as everyone has different braking characteristics and it’s largely based on feel as well as the obvious riding style and suspension set up/type of bike etc. It’s one of those things that has ‘parameters’ shall we say but there’s numerous ways of achieving a similar end result within those.

    I would personally stick my neck out and say it’s more the amount of brake and way in which you come off the brakes that’s the factor to whether you stay on or off the thing. Not necessarily how long you’re on them.

    the main reason you’re braking to apex is to keep the front end loaded (to a degree) I.E forcing the tyre in to the tarmac.. and to compress the forks which helps the bike turn. A lot of this can be sorted by tweaking the suspension which means you don’t have to take the same risks on braking deep in to the apex. However a small amount of lever isn’t too bad in my opinion atleast.

    do feel free to DM me if you ever want to chat this through or give me a call :)

    as said above there’s a few ways of reaching the same goal and everyone has their preference
     
    #46 Advikaz, Sep 27, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
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  7. That was my understanding too and tbh by the time I was at the apex the pads were probably only brushing the discs, because as you said it steepens the geometry, makes the bike turn and also increases the size of the contact patch. Tbh, I am probably overthinking it so I'll rewatch their video and also see what that nice Mr Keith Code and his weird little white beard have to say on the matter. If I'm still stuck after that then I'll take up your kind offer and drop you a PM.
     
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  8. Great read this....I’ll look at blyton as not heard of it before thank you :upyeah:
     
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  9. Thanks :upyeah:
     
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  10. You were also 30 minutes away from me!! I've lived near this circuit all my life and never actually seen it in person!! Loose Canon Trackdays hold trackdays here but I find they are expensive considering I could do Cadwell or Donny for the same/similar price.


    I also didn't realise they did sessions such as these and it's something I would consider and would find helpful. I'm a heavy braker too, but also like to give the bike a fist full of throttle, not a helpful combination!!!


    Having an instructor to assist, like you had with Dan, would help me immensely. I'll definitely check this company out for next year.


    Great post and i hope one day my son and/or daughter and i can have the same experience.
     
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  11. Thanks.

    "Loose Cannon"? Lol. There are already far too many of those on trackdays.....

    When I booked Level 2 with BSBS, I mentioned that I had done CSS Levels 1 & 2, and the organiser Mike said that they adopt a similar methodology. However, as I got moved up to Level 3, which analogous to CSS Level 4, ie: bespoke coaching for specific issues, I can't say how the BSBS Level 2 works.

    One thing I did notice though is that while CSS's teaching is a very rigid set of drills which start with you riding round in one gear not using your brakes and then the next session they add brakes, then the next session they add gear changes, etc, the bikes on track at Blyton didn't seem to be doing that, and my son didn't mention anything like that either. So if you want a course which has a similar approach to CSS you should make sure that is how BSBS approach it.

    Btw, now CSS have risen from the dead again I will probably complete Levels 3 and 4, but it's not clear from their website when they are holding sessions as the "Schedule" page just says something like "ask for details"
     
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