i think you've inadvertently provided the answer bradders........to go faster in a corner you need ,...... Balls!
Only because massive balls act to counter the bike wanting to stand up when asking for more gas. They only hang off to hang their massive balls down to lower their CoG.
To some extent, but the effect of the geometry of the forks has much more effect on ease of leaning than the width of the bars. A race bikes forks are much nearer vertical so a small bar input has a relatively larger effect. For bikes with the same geometry, then, yes, the wider bars will be easier.
I think you mentioned weight earlier on. Weight has to be the key variable here. If all the forces are balanced out at the 40 degrees lean and 80mph you specify, then that is for s specific weight of rider plus bike. If you decrease the weight (or mass), then in order for the forces to balance out, you will need to decrease lean angle or increase the speed. So light weight of rider and machine do not just aid acceleration and handling but corner speed as well. No wonder the top riders are so skinny...
I made no mention of bars in my statement. It has nothing to with that. To better illustrate my point: Take two identical racing bikes, one with a normal seat and one that raises the rider up by a few inches. Assume that the rider can easily reach pegs, bars etc in both cases. The bike with the raised seat will be easier to lean over than the standard seat one as there is more leverage in that set up to use against the gyroscopic effect tending to stand the bike up. I just thought it was interesting : o )
In which case why have the lower bars that are used on race bikes? Why not have higher bars that allow a rider to still tuck in?
Aerodynamics. If wind resistance was not a factor, everybody would use higher bars. But actually drag is a major factor, especially at high speeds, so riders are obliged to crouch down and tuck in as much as possible - hence low bars - except while slowing on the approach to corners.
If I have got the question correct; how can you go faster in a corner with out increasing the lean angle or alternatively can you go through a corner with the same speed with less lean angle. This is covered in chapter 15 of “Twist with a wrist II” Which I believe is also the teachings of the California Superbike school. “ What do we now know? For a given speed, the quicker you turn your bike, the less lean-angle you use. “ The book suggests that the quicker you rotate the bike into any turn the less lean angle you need for a given speed or alternatively you can keep the same speed with less lean angle. Excellent book if you have not seen it before.
That aspect is covered in chapter 17 where it is suggested this is of far less significance. Just for info I am not an expert in any way, way too old and slow for that
As @OldBadger says, leave it late and turn fast. Too many variables on a bike to answer. It is ultimately tyre grip, but how you load the tyre makes that difference..... just looking at all the different riding positions that work even in MotoGP tell you it isn’t an absolute science.... not to mention how constant a throttle you are on.... etc...etc.... Am I the only person that read the title and thought this was all about @nelly ‘s place?!!
By "changes position" we mean leans off more to the inside. The centre of gravity needs to be lower but is does not matter whether thats the bikes or the riders.
Yes exactly, California Superbike School was set up by Keith Code. They hand out that book (or you can buy it) at the courses. The fast turning, as I understood it from the training, was about only asking the tyre to do one main thing at a time so as to use the grip optimally. So you get your braking done, then you turn fast, then you get the bike upright as quickly as possible. Of course for racers, they take this to a more intuitive level where they just feel where the grip is and experiment on every corner with every possible variable for different racing lines... So the fast turning method they teach is counter-steering. I can’t remember the physics of it, but for some reason you drop the bike into the turn faster by pushing the inside bar quickly to get it turning, then carry on as normal. Great race school, can’t recommend them enough. I think what many of us are saying is that rider skill IS the limiting factor for the vast majority of amateur track riders.
I have both TOTW1 and 2 on PDF, plus Sport Riding Techniques, on PDF somewhere if anyone wants it. Go see any non-CSS coach who races and tutors racers, and they all say the same: they love CSS riders when racing against them because they are so easy to pass. And they spend a lot of time undoing some of the stuff. But it worked for me on a small bike, but not so on a big one, given gas application area of small vs big
