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Ducati: The Sound Of A New Era Is Coming. New V4 Release?

Discussion in 'Front Page Articles' started by Rob, Aug 1, 2017.

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  1. Ducatis should be a V twin if you want a
    V four buy a Honda
     
  2. Had a go on the latest Aprilia RF recently, partly cos I was being cheeky and wanted an advance 'feel' for a V4 before Ducatis release and partly cos I'm always genuinely looking for the next 'big something' that blows me away.
    For me, the Aprilia didn't convince me I would like to change from my 1299 but more importantly, my observations re the V4 engine compared to a big twin were : VERY free revving, quick shifter slicker on the four pot, nice sound (but not as impressive as the 1299 with an Akra EVO), you could literally ride it anywhere in first or second gear, didn't have the off the bottom stomp of the 1299 (let alone the previous 10/1198's), and generally a very easy engine to ride. The last comment is the killer one for me cos when I ride my 1299 I often think to myself that I should get something that's a little less hard work and demanding, but when i try that very thing in other manufacturers offerings, I always walk away thinking they're not as characterful as a big twin ! I think with this in mind, I hope that Ducati make their V4 a bit more guttural than the Aprilia to get the Ducatisti on board, a la the Desmo....just my two Lira worth..... Did somebody say Schizophrenic ! o_O
     
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  3. Lira ?? Where ya been mate it's bloody euros now. I think all the V manufacturers are now trying to convince the jap bike riders to jump ship hence why the panigale was smoothed out and made less guttural same as the aprila v4 and no doubt the new Ducati V4 will follow the same vein. Such a shame. Give me that v twin stop of an era soon to be lost
     
  4. Personally, and having owned or ridden most over the last twenty five years, I'm beginning to think the 1299 really is the ultimate development of the big twin sports bike engine for road use and the reason they've been smoothed out is mainly to allow higher reliable revs to stretch for that all important 200 BHP we all 'need'.
    My use of 'Lira' was an ironic reference to something else Italian that shouldn't have been messed with !
     
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  5. I am currently in Italy been coming here since I was 3 months old. Most of my family here. Your right the lira shouldn't have been messed with and neither should the bikes they had a beautiful style easily recognisable. Ok the Pani is pretty but from a distance you could mistake it for a jap bike.
     
  6. Not if the engines running Bud ;)
     
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  7. No desire to buy another brand new Ducati, I bought a 748 new and loved it (still do) I then bought a 1098. new which is a great bike but for me has too much electronics, I know we're talking 10 years ago but I just think the older models had so much more style, feel and character. Like to have a go on a panigale but no real desire to own one. Each to their own I guess. V4 will be interesting and I hope it's a success for the future of the brand.
     
    #27 Hughdg, Aug 3, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
  8. Interesting, I thought the V2s (L2s) were finished at the end of the 998's
    bhp= plan (break mean effective pressure X length of stroke X piston area X RPM)
    Ducati is blessed from the 998 on; with a higher "break mean effective pressure"
    'due to cylinder head, port, valve area, and compactness improvements.
    The 999 is the last time an equivalent capacity Ducati L2 beat the Japanese 4s to championships
    The real problem is the reciprocating stress on the engine increase as the square of the increase in engine rpm
    some Ducati RS, F' twins revved to 13500- 13700rpm but have very short component lives including the cases.
    The 4 cylinder competitors engines revved to 16,500rpm? (guess) had smaller reciprocating components and could easily accomodate their reciprocating stresses.
    If both types had equivalent BMEP, and Thermo's the 4 cylinder bikes would be expected to produce 16500/13500 or 22% more power simply due the effect of increased rpm on the bhp=plan relationship

    Well the above highlight is rubbish!! After additional research it appears that the only WSB bike even getting to 14,500rpm (in 2013)was the BMW? This suggests if the extra displacement was not only to compensates for the lower rpm that the Ducatis could reliably race at; but suggests that Ducati; induction, top-end and exhaust also have a lower BMEP constant than the 4 cylinder bikes; which also requires compensation for. Notice F1 cars dont have two cylinders
    The more valves, up to 4 allow increases in bhp because of the increases possible in valve open area; but Yamahas 5 valve heads obviously didn't produce the required power at high revs possibly because of turbulence caused by the additional port and divider
    The modern Ducati race bikes have been allowed the extra displacement to compensate for the L2s inabilty to increase rpm without making them even more unreliable.

    The power produced, all things equal and disregarding the heat rejection differences, is only determined by the size of the fire-; how much fuel and air can the engine burn in a given amount of time, it was only possible for the 999s to beat the fours because of Ducatis other racing attributes; examples; they had uneven tire loading inherited from the 90-270 degree firing order which allowed the traction limits to be felt when approaching them; because the tyre was allowed to recover grip between engine torque pulses and better or equivalent, handling, braking and corner exit
    Interestingly the 4cylinder race bikes now have slipper clutches and engine control to reduce hop, cross-plane cranks to get the same effect as Ducatis big bang crankshaft, ie they have picked up some of the L2's inherent design characteristics and applied them to 4 cylinder engines.
    Less advantage for Ducati in motorcycle dynamics and absolute disadvantage in BHP?
    Only solution to cost of racing was build bigger engines and run them at lower rpm levels to maintain acceptable, affordable, reliability
    What ever the reasons for Ducatis WSB racing success it is amazing it has come in the face of much larger companies who put their money on the most advantageous physics, while Ducati pushed a design destined to eventually fail, beyond its limits, for longer than it should have been able to do.
    Look forward to a true level playing field in WSB for Ducati to continue its David and Goliath victories against the rest of the worlds manufacturers, with the shackles removed? V4's are not a backward step, and you will find there will be a benefits to Ducati's MotoGP efforts as well.
     
    #28 breakout998, Aug 5, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
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  9. Totally agree here. Having had 900ss ST4S and now 2103 skyhook multi i confess that rying other bikes is very disappointing due to the perceived lack of charecter, including a day on DVT, Kwacker Sx , had a soft spot for KTM 1290 GT, much better brakes and road manners! But it seems that V twin character of old is being written out of the script for any new bikes, guessing it is to attract VFR etc owners over?

    I am seriously unable to think of another bike i might like to have in the future, lets see what Ducati V4 brings, but having totally nullified the character in the DVT engine i do not hold high hopes.
     
  10. Hey... I've a V8...
     

  11. Never ridden a DVT and that's partly because I keep seeing them on the road but I can't hear them (exhaust or engine) and I find myself questioning if I mis-identified the bike and it was a four pot or some other !
    Having said that, went out with a guy last year who was riding a Multi from a few years back with a Termi' system on it and that sounded right proper !!
     

  12. Never ridden a DVT and that's partly because I keep seeing them on the road but I can't hear them (exhaust or engine) and I find myself questioning if I mis-identified the bike and it was a four pot or some other !
    Having said that, went out with a guy last year who was riding a Multi from a few years back with a Termi' system on it and that sounded right proper !!
     
  13. we heard you the first time.
     
  14. Arrivederci then.
     
  15. Having owned Ducatis for over 40 years I love my 2017 DVT, mainly because of its great character, look, sound, and feel. No idea what you could possibly mean by "nullified the character".
     
  16. Sorry for both of us; in 20yrs your Ducati will have a totally flat torque curve, and whine at you as you give it stick, just like a real dog' you wont be able to buy fuel to ride your bikes, with the only posibbility of the 2yr ballot for quota of 4ltrs (All fuel is available corrosiveshit designed to eat the guts out of the1098R), that you have collected, which will be continously monitored for unauthorized start ups, which will incur an Environment damage penalty when the kids next door report you to the Punisher
    We got to wear them out before they become totally useless apart from turning into coffee tables?
     
  17. I always liked that my mutley 1000, always sounded like a bag of spanners, it gives it the ducati character.
     
  18. Think KTM? I want Ducati make bikes similar to KTM, like old Ducatis not like BMW; Ducati's whose style relies on their function
    KTM is functional, particularly in chassis and engine. Ugly maybe? I think the bikes in the Ducati touring range have got too much bulbous plastic on them, and because of that they are not as practical as KTMS for non-poseur work,(look like expensive to crash); I like the old ducati's where what was required was all that was on the bike?
    Went to Missano a few year ago, the Ducati main street show comprised of Ducatis been held on the Rev limiters (on the side stand)??? The bikes were too immaculate; I could not pay any body to prepare my bikes like that, couldn't afford it? Most had lots of horrible, shiny blue, and red anodized parts? I was a bit embarrassed by it but not by Troy
    The only real action on the street was a Kawasaki doing decent mono and stoppies/burnouts
    KTM is stealing Ducati's competition mantle? and some Ducati's now look like bloated pigs, (I wont say which ones) you cant ride them in anger because it is very difficult for most to be able to afford to fix them? Ducati has assaulted every bodies bums with the seats on the scrambler, and every bodies intelligence with the rear suspension? I hope ducati ensure that the dual purpose bikes are able to at least compete with the KTMs for practicality, cost and performance. Dent them, use them, crash them, ride them as if you not a bike collector but a rider? and scratches honor the hard men that ride them to the competition glory that makes you want to buy them?
    WHAT DO YOU THINK?



     
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  19. Agree about the 748R
     
  20. If that’s the thinking, they should be Radios :p
     
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