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Gun Laws & The Las Vegas Atrocities.

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Topolino, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. @JR45 Wow, from your post I feel like maybe I'm living in the wild wild west over here! Believe it or not I do feel fortunate to live here knowing that my opinions count and make a difference. We went from a Democrat controlled government to Republican, hmmmm, wonder why that happened? Save universal healthcare for another thread (you must be aware of the pitfalls of Obamacare or likely you'll look for whatever stats to support it. There are stats to support any side of an argument you decide to take. For sh-ts and giggles try looking up stats to support the opposing view). I would never presume to know what is best for everyone on your side of the ocean or criticize as I don't live there but I am quite happy with what this country has to offer me here. It's not perfect but nothing is. By the way, my gun totin' neighbors and I get along quite well thank you.
     
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  2. The difference in the UK is that you can't just walk into a gunshop and say you want to buy a gun and the let the gunshop owner make his own judgement and enquiries say whether you can have it or not.
     
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  3. Pro-gun argument made simple: "I value my 'right' to take a life more highly than your wish to save a life"...
     
  4. FB_20171005_07_33_47_Saved_Picture.jpg
     
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  5. What a load of b*ll*cks. So Switzerland which has one of the world's highest rates of gun ownership is a dangerous place where everyone is shooting each other is it? No.

    So it's clearly not gun ownership that is the problem is it? No.
     
  6. Are you on crack?
     
  7. Was there ever a more pointless debate, that between supporters of general gun ownership and those who oppose it?
    They simply do not understand each other's position - both sides are incapable of it as they don't have the life's worth of training, the necessary cultural intelligence.

    I anticipate Brexiteers and Remainers singing off the same hymn sheet long before I ever see either side of the gun debate appreciating the other's POV.
     
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  8. Can't agree with you on this one Loz, firstly I don't think it's a pointless debate and secondly, until very recently, I was (and always had been) anti gun ownership.
     
  9. Its not guns that are dangerous. Its Americans. A significant portion of them are not bright enough to use a toothbrush. Yet they can buy a semi automatic combat rifle. I don't have issues with people having guns, per se; but I might have at least postulated some form of idiot control. A wise man once said never to underestimate the ingenuity of idiots. Therefore even with idiot controls, an idiot will find a way. The problem isn't the gun, its the idiot.
     
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  10. Personally, I don't believe that the debate over general gun ownership is conducted very sensibly.

    The anti-gun side argues about the thing we all hate - massacres like all the recent atrocities we have seen in the US - but it does not address the underlying reasons why people with guns want to keep them. Indeed, the anti-gun side dismiss such concerns on the part of gun-owners as nonsensical. Whereas the gun-owners see events like Las Vegas as even more reason for keeping their guns.

    In effect, the two sides are arguing the merits of chalk vs cheese. They aren't actually discussing the same issues.
     
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  11. Maybe Trump can invent a law that forces Americans to exchange all their guns for paintball guns, in that way they are still capable of having that feeling that they are descending from the old cowboys in the wild west, meanwhile the real guns can be burried in the foundations from that wall he is going to build? (Yes the Mexicans will pay for it!)
     
  12. Fixed.
     
  13. You are Trumpty Dumpty. What do I win?
     
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  14. Its my right under my 1st amendment to wind up Americans.
     
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  15. I'm not of the opinion that Americans in general are the problem with guns - maybe they seem it because of the size of the country and the population compared with other countries.

    The issue of permits without proper vetting might be the cause.

    China probably has a greater population but personal firearm ownership is tightly controlled as far as I am aware.

    Excepting terrorists and rebels of African / Middle Eastern states who cannot be compared with personall gun ownership statistics; loonies with legal possession of guns crop up everywhere - Anything from a single killing to mass shootings have occurred over the years.

    I can think of two straightaway in the UK; one in Switzerland and Breivik in Norway; plus owing to size of population and lax permit control, there have been many in the USA.

    Just as many shootings in the USA have been committed by juveniles getting hold of parents guns.

    In the UK, to get a shotgun certificate (which is a slightly different process to getting a firearms licence) a form has to be completed by the applicant which is submitted to the County Police Force Firearms Department.

    Four recent photographs of the applicant; one signed by the applicant have to be included with the application

    The form requests inofrmation regarding health and medication; plus it requires the applicants approval for their GP to be contacted by the Police in order that the GP can confirm medication and state of mind of the applicant.

    The form also requires confirmation of gun security; types of shotgun being purchased and the serial number if a deposit has been placed on a shotgun at a Registered Firearms Dealer. The RFD will not release a shotgun to the purchaser without seeing the SG certificate and noting down details of the applicant and certificate.

    In addition, the Police require a nominated referee by a responsible person who has known the applicant for at least two years (it used to be three years and the responsible person had to be a professional) in order to have another opinion that the applicant isn't a nutter.

    In most cases when the Police are satisfied with the application they will contact the applicant to visit the applicant's premises and inspect the gun security provisions. If it is a renewal certificate they will also inspect the shotgun types and serial numbers of those already owned.

    If the Police are satisfied, they will then personally hand deliver the certificate. If they are not satisfied, you don't get your certificate (or your new guns) and they will confiscate guns already owned.

    Firearms licence process is similar but additionally two referees are required instead of one; a justifiable reason to own a firearm has to be provided; plus permission of the landowner; and / or shooting club membership. Furthermore the applicant has to state how much and what type ammunition is held or is intended to be purchased.

    Obviously the firearm licence is for rifles and not handguns - however; some limited number of persons are permitted to have handguns of sorts.

    There is no control in the USA anywhere near the UK controls standards.
     
    #96 Ghost Rider, Oct 7, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2017
  16. We still have handguns in the UK, they are only permitted & limited to loading two bullets. Under humane dispatch rules, such as revolvers & pistols with magazine clips. Rifles can have far larger caliber than a AR16 semi-automatic gun & further range. And you can get .22 rimfire semi-automatic rifles but all of these are covered by certain UK gun licensing laws & checks. A friend has a 6-cartridge shotgun which is very hard to get in the UK as they are banned from sale (but not to own). Shotguns now have limit of 3-rounds stowed internally & one in the chamber. You could probably get a license to own/fire a cannon with enough land owned. And I've met a chap from coventry who has one of the few live firing tanks privately owned & he has a huge number of hurdles to jump too demonstrate his main battle-field possession with blank tank rounds.

    Archery/long Bows & village greens (area specifically relinquished for people to practice distance firing from medieval yee olde britain) are dedicated to the civilian training & the reminder of constant european invaders. Bow/arrow hunting of deer is illegal I might add unless under license.
     
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  17. The figure of 3.6 deaths per 100,000 population per year in the USA is homicides only. If you include suicides by firearms, the figure is 9.9 deaths per 100,000.
     
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  18. There are allegedly loads of guns over in this wee corner of the uk..:sob: also lots of nutters .
     
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